1
00:00:41,660 --> 00:00:45,000
charismatic opinionated i have to point
out he was short but he was a giant of a

2
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,840
man really a good storyteller he was
completely selfless animated kind

3
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,120
caring devilish laid back very
approachable can i say things that are

4
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,200
completely flattering and wonderful he
had the capacity to have the worst

5
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,180
possible gas he'd be proud of that yeah
he wasn't a saint he was a hell of a guy

6
00:01:02,180 --> 00:01:05,540
he was just so intelligent and um

7
00:01:29,610 --> 00:01:30,610
I'll tell you about it someday.

8
00:01:32,010 --> 00:01:33,190
Do you know who that is?

9
00:01:33,830 --> 00:01:34,830
Andrew.

10
00:01:35,210 --> 00:01:36,270
You know who Andrew is?

11
00:01:36,850 --> 00:01:37,850
I don't know.

12
00:01:40,790 --> 00:01:43,150
Why did Andrew get killed?

13
00:01:45,610 --> 00:01:49,210
Because somebody hurt him, buddy. I'm an
only child, and I'll get around to why

14
00:01:49,210 --> 00:01:55,170
this is of any importance whatsoever,
but... Trust me, there's a deal. Where

15
00:01:55,170 --> 00:01:56,270
were you when you found out?

16
00:01:56,950 --> 00:02:01,520
Melanie. who's on the front desk, calls
back and says, Kate, there's a policeman

17
00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,940
from Sunnyvale on the line for you. Do
you want to talk to him? And I said, oh

18
00:02:04,940 --> 00:02:05,960
yeah, put it through to the office.

19
00:02:06,180 --> 00:02:09,680
Are you Kathleen Bagby? I said, yes.
I've got a message here from

20
00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,100
You're to call this number. It's the
coroner's office.

21
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:14,560
You've got bad news.

22
00:02:15,620 --> 00:02:17,340
I said, is my son dead?

23
00:02:18,130 --> 00:02:21,310
And he said, I can't tell you that,
madam. He said, but you've got terrible

24
00:02:21,310 --> 00:02:25,430
news. I dialed this number that he'd
given me. And it was a man, an irate

25
00:02:25,570 --> 00:02:28,750
The coroner's office was closed down.
There's nothing he could do about it.

26
00:02:28,750 --> 00:02:31,530
have to call back tomorrow morning. I
called back to the Sunnyvale police

27
00:02:31,530 --> 00:02:34,530
station. So he gave me another number.
And then I got through to Sergeant

28
00:02:34,530 --> 00:02:38,410
Krulak. And he said, your son is dead
under suspicious circumstances. Have you

29
00:02:38,410 --> 00:02:39,990
got any idea why he was in the park?

30
00:02:42,890 --> 00:02:44,150
Why is my son dead?

31
00:02:45,590 --> 00:02:46,590
Murdered?

32
00:02:46,670 --> 00:02:47,670
He said yes.

33
00:02:48,230 --> 00:02:49,490
And then I called David.

34
00:02:51,470 --> 00:02:54,410
And I said to him, Andrew's dead.

35
00:02:56,390 --> 00:02:57,570
And he said no.

36
00:02:58,870 --> 00:03:00,650
And I heard him throw the phone.

37
00:03:01,410 --> 00:03:05,210
I called the flight crew back and I
said, you know, we're coming. And he

38
00:03:05,270 --> 00:03:09,210
well, that's good. Through that flight,
we just, we thought we'd go get Andrew

39
00:03:09,210 --> 00:03:13,330
and bring him back to California and get
everything organized, whatever, and

40
00:03:13,330 --> 00:03:15,390
then kill ourselves because no point
going on.

41
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:18,460
That was the first plan.

42
00:03:20,420 --> 00:03:23,800
Obviously, we didn't do that. He gave me
the list to call, and we started

43
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,200
calling. I came home, and there was a
message from Robert.

44
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,360
I was in the living room.

45
00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,660
Many people got a kick in the head from
this.

46
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,440
Everybody always says, well, what would
be the difference if one person weren't

47
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:38,440
alive?

48
00:03:47,630 --> 00:03:51,150
I came home on November 7, 2001, to find
a message from my sister.

49
00:03:51,710 --> 00:03:55,370
At 3 .41 p .m., I called her back.

50
00:03:56,030 --> 00:03:57,290
She told me to sit down.

51
00:04:02,550 --> 00:04:09,310
In the original news, they said an
unidentified man in his 30s was found.

52
00:04:09,820 --> 00:04:14,780
in hospital scrubs none of those words
described who he was and and they could

53
00:04:14,780 --> 00:04:21,579
put them on paper and make them true
nobody said this person this wonderful

54
00:04:21,579 --> 00:04:27,540
person was hurt we met in first grade at
st andrews school in saratoga

55
00:04:27,540 --> 00:04:31,840
california and i soon came to think of
them as my closest friend it was here in

56
00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:35,480
the san jose bay area scattered across
the suburbs that make up silicon valley

57
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:40,120
that we all grew up There was Chris. Do
I remember how I met Andrew? It was

58
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,880
second grade. And Matt. I can say
without shame that we bathed together.

59
00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,860
Michelle. He was the first friend I made
my first day of school. John. We met

60
00:04:48,860 --> 00:04:53,100
the first day of class because of our
names, Atkinson and Bagby. Olivier. We

61
00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:56,080
talked for about 20, 30 minutes and I
realized, wow, this guy's pretty cool.

62
00:04:56,180 --> 00:04:58,060
Heather. Oh, I'm sure you guys hear
things I didn't hear.

63
00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:02,980
Between the two of us, we might actually
be able to put together a half -decent

64
00:05:02,980 --> 00:05:03,980
story. And there was me.

65
00:05:04,220 --> 00:05:05,420
My name's Kurt, and I'm a filmmaker.

66
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,440
I'm Kurt Kenney, and I play Indiana
Jones. He appeared in every movie I made

67
00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,180
growing up. We made a movie!

68
00:05:11,980 --> 00:05:16,020
He loved playing bad guys. Jeff, it's
cocaine.

69
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:17,240
Hey, Todd.

70
00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:18,860
You must be a smart boy.

71
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,640
And having a free pass to smoke and
swear in front of his parents. I will

72
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,520
you! Fizz my ass! Fizz my ass, you son
of a bitch! Christ!

73
00:05:26,180 --> 00:05:29,180
Start the fucking car and get out of
here! Fuck you! Fuck all you fucking

74
00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:30,360
people! I did not say.

75
00:05:30,780 --> 00:05:33,760
That F word, I'm sorry. Which was
probably kind of a cool release for a

76
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:35,240
made Eagle Scout by age 15.

77
00:05:36,409 --> 00:05:39,870
Mrs. Bagby, having watched it where
Andrew was running around yelling and

78
00:05:39,870 --> 00:05:43,590
screaming, kind of went... I can't
really remember being... Oh, that's not

79
00:05:43,590 --> 00:05:47,830
son. Perhaps you have a different idea
that I got all upset about it. I don't

80
00:05:47,830 --> 00:05:51,430
know. Not my son. And eventually I even
got them in on the act. Son of a bitch,

81
00:05:51,470 --> 00:05:52,470
you little shit!

82
00:05:52,670 --> 00:05:54,670
You're a pain in the ass. You little
bastard.

83
00:05:55,050 --> 00:05:58,010
Does that give you the right to go
yelling about your penis on the air? It

84
00:05:58,010 --> 00:06:00,950
wasn't always fun and games. Son of a
bitch! Oh, Jesus!

85
00:06:01,310 --> 00:06:02,249
Did I actually hit you?

86
00:06:02,250 --> 00:06:04,770
I didn't hurt your hand, did I? Yes, but
don't worry about it. And if you knee

87
00:06:04,770 --> 00:06:07,700
me in the balls again... And I know I
drove him nuts sometimes.

88
00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:11,360
But despite it all...

89
00:06:23,610 --> 00:06:24,610
He always supported me.

90
00:06:25,790 --> 00:06:31,010
He even

91
00:06:31,010 --> 00:06:35,410
invested in my first feature film while
he was working to save for medical

92
00:06:35,410 --> 00:06:36,410
school.

93
00:06:37,970 --> 00:06:44,890
At his memorial service, I talked with
his med school friend,

94
00:06:45,010 --> 00:06:46,110
Anthony, who told me...

95
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,680
I had no idea he took pictures. I'd
known him for 22 years.

96
00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:58,580
What else didn't I know?

97
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,880
I was never going to get to visit him at
his hospital and see what he was like

98
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:03,880
as a doctor.

99
00:07:03,980 --> 00:07:06,700
I would never be going to his wedding
where I would finally meet his entire

100
00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:07,700
family at the reception.

101
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,640
He would never be telling me anything I
didn't already know about him.

102
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,140
So I decided to make this movie to
travel far and wide to interview

103
00:07:16,140 --> 00:07:20,180
ever knew and loved him to learn
everything there was to know and to make

104
00:07:20,180 --> 00:07:21,180
last movie with him.

105
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,040
I had no idea how many years it would
take or how I would even know when I was

106
00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,039
done.

107
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,660
But the longer I waited, the more
memories would be lost.

108
00:07:29,380 --> 00:07:33,260
So I started at home in California, and
as soon as I could, I grabbed a camera.

109
00:07:33,340 --> 00:07:36,960
Okay, Andrew, ready? And said, action. I
had a couple gallons of water. I took a

110
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:38,920
gallon of water and I poured it on
there, put out the fire.

111
00:07:39,180 --> 00:07:43,040
How would I describe Andrew to someone
who'd never met him? The man never wore

112
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,700
pants. He only wore shorts. Why?

113
00:07:46,020 --> 00:07:47,180
Constantly. I see smoke.

114
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,760
Starts to billow out around the right
-hand side of the cabin there.

115
00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,620
Well, Andrew was very good at pooling.
Well, quite frankly, he was a pool shark

116
00:07:54,620 --> 00:07:58,440
is what he was. Well, he had a good
teacher. All around this side, this

117
00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,260
bit of tree is right here, all up in
flames.

118
00:08:01,540 --> 00:08:04,060
When we first met him, he had this thing
with his fingernails.

119
00:08:04,700 --> 00:08:08,140
He'd bite them. They looked like they'd
been through a shredder.

120
00:08:08,580 --> 00:08:12,020
And the first place I come to, calls up
the fire department, ring, ring, ring.

121
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,120
I got an answering machine.

122
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:16,840
At the fire department?

123
00:08:16,940 --> 00:08:17,819
At the fire department.

124
00:08:17,820 --> 00:08:22,340
He's probably the most determined person
I've ever met about doing a particular

125
00:08:22,340 --> 00:08:26,580
profession. His mom worked in the
business, so we would sit and discuss

126
00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:30,580
topic, like venereal disease.

127
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,020
Mom was a nurse practitioner. I'm very
impressed.

128
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:36,740
OBGYN nurse practitioner.

129
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:42,120
This water bomber just crashed over the
hill over here and just dumped water all

130
00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,980
over this thing. You know, he didn't
get...

131
00:08:44,350 --> 00:08:47,930
an offer to come to medical school at
the end of the first year and i remember

132
00:08:47,930 --> 00:08:53,390
you know that was that was a big downer
i think he felt like he wasn't like

133
00:08:53,390 --> 00:08:58,890
things were kind of stalled for him and
he wasn't really he wasn't living up to

134
00:08:58,890 --> 00:09:01,730
expectations this guy gave me a call
from the department of forestry and he

135
00:09:01,730 --> 00:09:06,770
well i've gone to bat for you and it's
going to be 300 what are you going to do

136
00:09:06,770 --> 00:09:13,510
okay i'll get a job and i'll play again
okay that's problem solution then about

137
00:09:13,910 --> 00:09:16,750
Three weeks after that, I get a call
from some lady again from the Department

138
00:09:16,750 --> 00:09:20,050
Forestry saying, why did you send us a
$300 check? And then, of course, Heather

139
00:09:20,050 --> 00:09:23,930
brought home the application she'd
picked up from the Royal University of

140
00:09:23,930 --> 00:09:27,570
Newfoundland. I had to go look at St.
John's on the map when you got accepted

141
00:09:27,570 --> 00:09:30,990
there. I mean, I knew that's over in the
East Coast. From the land of

142
00:09:30,990 --> 00:09:33,010
California, Andrew Bagby came.

143
00:09:33,630 --> 00:09:36,210
He came to Newfoundland and set the
wilderness aflame.

144
00:09:36,850 --> 00:09:42,370
It's a $75 fine for having a campfire
out of season, and it's $75 for turning

145
00:09:42,370 --> 00:09:43,370
your back on.

146
00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:44,639
It's $150.

147
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,060
Is that all right? Tear up the check.
I'll send you $150.

148
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,700
So if you want to burn down Bay Roberts,
it's $150.

149
00:09:53,460 --> 00:09:54,460
Pretty much the answer.

150
00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:59,140
He's now engaged to this lovely girl,
and he's going to go to med school.

151
00:09:59,340 --> 00:10:00,159
It's great.

152
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,740
Graduation, he was in shorts. Hold on a
second. We'll come back to this. But

153
00:10:02,740 --> 00:10:05,800
before we go any further, you've got to
know what happened.

154
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:07,880
The whole truth.

155
00:10:08,740 --> 00:10:09,740
So here it is.

156
00:10:13,550 --> 00:10:17,790
A couple of policemen met us at the
airport in Pittsburgh, took us over to

157
00:10:17,790 --> 00:10:24,390
hospital. Bill and Clark picked us up
and took us over to Botch's

158
00:10:24,390 --> 00:10:30,110
funeral home in Greensburg. And then he
took us down the stairway, Gurney at the

159
00:10:30,110 --> 00:10:36,270
other end, with a white sheet over a
body, and

160
00:10:36,270 --> 00:10:41,970
went over to him. And when we could see
his face,

161
00:10:45,580 --> 00:10:48,120
I said, it's really him.

162
00:10:49,580 --> 00:10:56,060
I kissed him and held him, and Kate
kissed him and held him and kissed him

163
00:10:56,060 --> 00:11:00,280
more. Tears were dropping on him, of
course, and Kate went to wipe one of

164
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:01,300
away off his cheek.

165
00:11:02,220 --> 00:11:07,820
And a plug came out where he'd been shot
in the left cheek.

166
00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:23,840
She pushed it back in and cried some
more. After that, I lost it. And I just

167
00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,340
outside and screamed. I was so fucking
mad. I couldn't see straight. God damn

168
00:11:28,340 --> 00:11:32,220
it, I hate it. I've never hated it like
that. Did you know who I hated? Didn't

169
00:11:32,220 --> 00:11:36,480
know who it was. Just knew that somebody
purposely put him there. Whoever that

170
00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,020
is, is a monster.

171
00:11:38,420 --> 00:11:39,660
Who hurt him?

172
00:11:40,220 --> 00:11:41,500
A very bad person.

173
00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,540
Which bad person?

174
00:12:04,540 --> 00:12:10,700
I couldn't figure out who she was in
relation to Andrew, since Andrew talked

175
00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:13,260
lot about women, but never really
mentioned her.

176
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:18,520
It makes me sick to my stomach now, but
I was so excited.

177
00:12:19,070 --> 00:12:20,150
That he was dating somebody.

178
00:12:20,630 --> 00:12:25,030
Come on, Shirley, get out from behind
him. I knew he'd been struggling with me

179
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:26,850
moving on and dating other people.

180
00:12:27,070 --> 00:12:28,009
Or maybe you will.

181
00:12:28,010 --> 00:12:31,730
You already met me. I was excited. I
thought that maybe he had found somebody

182
00:12:31,730 --> 00:12:34,810
that he, you know, could really be happy
with.

183
00:12:37,890 --> 00:12:40,830
But it turned out that way. We went to
the same medical school.

184
00:12:41,150 --> 00:12:42,570
You went to the same medical school?

185
00:12:42,830 --> 00:12:43,830
Yeah, Newfoundland.

186
00:12:43,890 --> 00:12:44,990
Oh, is that right? Canada?

187
00:12:45,390 --> 00:12:47,130
Yeah. Can you recognize my accent?

188
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:48,269
Did you know her?

189
00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:49,270
Yeah.

190
00:12:51,550 --> 00:12:53,670
Do you remember when they started
dating?

191
00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:59,010
She just kind of appeared. And then she
was there all the time, all of a sudden.

192
00:12:59,550 --> 00:13:04,410
And just didn't seem suited for him. Did
you describe yourself as boyfriend and

193
00:13:04,410 --> 00:13:06,670
girlfriend? Well, no, not really.

194
00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:09,090
I did say there was considerable age
difference.

195
00:13:09,830 --> 00:13:13,510
And then the second time I heard him
talk about it, he actually fessed to the

196
00:13:13,510 --> 00:13:16,730
age difference. I was like, holy shit.
I'm 40 and he's 28.

197
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,480
surely he's got three kids all my kids
have a different last name from me

198
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,220
boar so oh okay me i always had to give
him a hard time so i teased him about

199
00:13:26,220 --> 00:13:31,620
nailing grandma and she seemed so
incongruous with who i would picture him

200
00:13:31,620 --> 00:13:34,660
person like that doesn't isn't just like
completely normal and then one day they

201
00:13:34,660 --> 00:13:38,780
become psycho you know i mean there had
to be some signs just be really

202
00:13:38,780 --> 00:13:43,760
inappropriate with things poor taste
Things that she would say. She was

203
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,200
making kind of sexually inappropriate
comments. But never threatening. We

204
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,720
thought of her as being threatening, but
just something was a little off.

205
00:13:51,740 --> 00:13:55,180
Something wasn't right. She started
calling me on a regular basis. She

206
00:13:55,180 --> 00:13:59,500
forever. Crude things about their
intimate relationship.

207
00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:03,220
But I thought it was kind of odd when I
met her that she was not practicing. She

208
00:14:03,220 --> 00:14:04,240
had finished residency.

209
00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:09,010
quite some time, and yet she was having
trouble getting her credentials.

210
00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:11,730
Nobody said anything because we all
respected Andrew.

211
00:14:12,170 --> 00:14:16,310
And if he wasn't putting the pieces
together or something, it just makes me

212
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:17,970
think he was just not caring.

213
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:22,210
He was likely 4 ,000 miles away from
where he wanted to be for the rest of

214
00:14:22,210 --> 00:14:27,590
life. He had had a very difficult, kind
of heartbreaking type of situation with

215
00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:30,750
Heather. You know, whatever happened
with their breakup really kind of

216
00:14:30,750 --> 00:14:34,110
devastated him and just left him
vulnerable.

217
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,140
Someone like Shirley. Andrew, you know
you can do a lot better.

218
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,300
I said, oh, no, I really can't. He'd
poke fun at himself all the time. Yeah,

219
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:46,140
would. He'd always say. He'd say he's a
short, portly little fella. Yeah. I'm

220
00:14:46,140 --> 00:14:48,120
dressed like I am now. Not looking all
that pretty.

221
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,020
No comment, please. You don't need to go
out with a woman because you can't

222
00:14:52,020 --> 00:14:53,580
think you can do better. It was a
comfort.

223
00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:57,520
And in Newfoundland, it was somebody to
be around, and he enjoyed it. We didn't

224
00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,880
really have a commitment or, you know, a
big future plan or anything like that.

225
00:15:01,060 --> 00:15:03,380
We do date other people. Oh, it's just
that.

226
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,380
Senior year thing. After graduation, he
came back to the U .S. to do a surgery

227
00:15:07,380 --> 00:15:10,400
residency in Syracuse, New York, and he
was miserable.

228
00:15:10,620 --> 00:15:13,560
He hated it. Shirley also decided to
move to the States to practice.

229
00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:14,820
You're in Omaha, right?

230
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,620
Actually, no. I'm in Council Bluffs,
which is in Iowa.

231
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:23,740
We were not very aware of his year in
Syracuse. What a problem she became to

232
00:15:23,740 --> 00:15:26,860
there. And we just had this, you know,
long distance.

233
00:15:28,170 --> 00:15:29,570
You know, get together when you can.

234
00:15:29,890 --> 00:15:33,490
It was a real hard year for him. There
was really no time for anything.

235
00:15:33,770 --> 00:15:38,270
And the fact that there was somebody
that was making a lot of effort to

236
00:15:38,270 --> 00:15:42,490
a relationship with him and represented
something else besides the misery that

237
00:15:42,490 --> 00:15:46,770
it sounded like his internship was, was
hard for him to pass up.

238
00:15:47,010 --> 00:15:50,110
He pretty quickly realized that surgery
wasn't for him and switched to a family

239
00:15:50,110 --> 00:15:53,210
practice residency in Latrobe,
Pennsylvania in July of 2001.

240
00:15:53,950 --> 00:15:58,310
And he loved it. He said, when you
finally find that thing that you know is

241
00:15:58,310 --> 00:16:02,710
niche, it's worth everything in the
world. And he now wanted her to go away.

242
00:16:02,930 --> 00:16:05,930
He did not invite her to Matthew. Yeah,
and she thought she was going to be

243
00:16:05,930 --> 00:16:08,850
coming. She just already had it
arranged. At the morning of the wedding,

244
00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:10,510
Andrew's cell phone started ringing.

245
00:16:11,150 --> 00:16:14,750
And he'd answer it. It's Charlotte. A
minute or two later, it rang again. It's

246
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:17,690
her again. Andrew got more and more
upset with her. What is your fucking

247
00:16:17,690 --> 00:16:22,210
problem? And he clicked off the phone.
She left 30 -some -odd messages.

248
00:16:22,810 --> 00:16:27,910
on his phone we are very close i
understand his phone in his house rang

249
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:31,850
times then his cell phone rang 30 times
he's like oh it's her i don't want to

250
00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:37,570
talk with her okay apparently andrew had
already asked charlie to accompany him

251
00:16:37,570 --> 00:16:42,210
to carla marcy's wedding october 20th
before july he had broken up with her a

252
00:16:42,210 --> 00:16:46,150
month before in his mind it sounds so
easy but it's so it's hard when you're a

253
00:16:46,150 --> 00:16:49,550
genuine person who cares he didn't know
how to be a son of a bitch because he

254
00:16:49,550 --> 00:16:54,350
wasn't a son of a bitch harley had been
really like all over Andrew, just acting

255
00:16:54,350 --> 00:16:55,930
possessive of him.

256
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:58,330
I say, Andrew, hey, do you want
something to drink? And she said, there

257
00:16:58,410 --> 00:16:59,410
hitting on the best man.

258
00:16:59,590 --> 00:17:02,350
So my jaw dropped. It had to. I remember
going.

259
00:17:02,750 --> 00:17:06,829
On the afternoon of Saturday, November
3rd, 2001, he broke up with Shirley once

260
00:17:06,829 --> 00:17:09,290
and for all over lunch at the airport in
Latrobe, Pennsylvania.

261
00:17:09,790 --> 00:17:13,849
Then he put her on a plane back to her
place in Council Bluffs, Iowa, 1 ,000

262
00:17:13,849 --> 00:17:14,849
miles away.

263
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:23,770
I remember the morning that Shirley
showed up.

264
00:17:24,190 --> 00:17:28,069
He said, you'll never guess who showed
up on my doorstep at 530.

265
00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:31,910
And I said, who? He said, the psychotic
bitch.

266
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:37,150
And I told him, I said, you know,
Andrew, when I break up with somebody

267
00:17:37,150 --> 00:17:41,710
them on a plane and send them 1300 miles
away, I said, they knock on my front

268
00:17:41,710 --> 00:17:44,690
door. I'm going out the back door and
I'm calling the police.

269
00:17:45,250 --> 00:17:46,310
He said, what do you mean?

270
00:17:47,130 --> 00:17:48,130
I said, Andrew.

271
00:17:51,530 --> 00:17:52,530
I said, be serious.

272
00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:58,770
Nobody drives 16 hours after you've just
broken up with them. I said, do not

273
00:17:58,770 --> 00:17:59,770
meet her in private.

274
00:18:00,430 --> 00:18:03,530
He said, what can happen? And he said,
I'm going to need to catch up with you.

275
00:18:03,550 --> 00:18:05,070
We're going to have to do some serious
talking.

276
00:18:05,630 --> 00:18:09,090
Well, I said, bring some beer. I only
live a block away. I said, when do you

277
00:18:09,090 --> 00:18:11,550
think you'll be done? He said, well,
it's 4 .30 now.

278
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:13,130
Meet her at 6.

279
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:15,650
7 .30, I'll be at your house.

280
00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:19,010
Things people should know about Andrew.

281
00:18:19,350 --> 00:18:20,350
He was never late.

282
00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:26,000
And you know what? When Andrew didn't
show up at 7 .30, I knew something was

283
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,000
very wrong.

284
00:18:27,940 --> 00:18:33,860
And when I went back down at 9 o 'clock
and didn't see his car there, I knew

285
00:18:33,860 --> 00:18:34,860
something was wrong.

286
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,660
Let me tell you the events of the day.
Andrew didn't show up for morning

287
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,900
Morning report ended around 8 o 'clock.
I went down to my office. I called

288
00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:45,739
Andrew's house.

289
00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:48,840
Oh, you reached Andrew back. Please
leave a message at the time. Thank you.

290
00:18:49,180 --> 00:18:50,180
Hey, Bags, it's Clark.

291
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,400
Just called to say hello and see where
you're at. I'm going to stop by your

292
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,800
house here in about five minutes. Call
this cell phone, Andrew, where are you

293
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:57,800
at?

294
00:18:57,870 --> 00:19:01,890
No answer to either one. As I recall,
we're getting pretty close to 9 o 'clock

295
00:19:01,890 --> 00:19:05,510
in the morning, and Rhonda and I and
some of the residents are starting to

296
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:06,169
little nervous.

297
00:19:06,170 --> 00:19:09,170
But I remember Bill coming in and
standing in front of the television and

298
00:19:09,170 --> 00:19:12,950
telling us. One of the ER docs turned to
me and said, you know, they found a

299
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:15,750
body in Scrubs out of Keystone Park.

300
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:18,770
Dead silence fell over, a heaviness like
I've never felt.

301
00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:23,240
And eventually almost everyone was
congregated there just waiting for more

302
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,460
Rhonda got the call, and she said to me,
they need you in Mr. Clark's office

303
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:31,380
right now. And I remember my heart
pounding. Going up damn near a sprint, I

304
00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:34,940
opened the door, and I remember seeing
three Pennsylvania State police troopers

305
00:19:34,940 --> 00:19:38,260
in uniforms sitting in the room. And I
said, you're here to tell me about

306
00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:42,680
Bagby, aren't you? They asked for us all
to gather in the conference room, and

307
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,400
they closed the door. He cleared his
throat. He just walked right up to the

308
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,740
podium, and he said, Andrew Bagby is
dead.

309
00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:51,850
And I said, well, you don't have to look
for her.

310
00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:56,510
They're like, what do you mean? Is this
involving Andrew at all?

311
00:19:56,870 --> 00:20:00,610
Yeah, I'm afraid it is. This woman was
in town.

312
00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:04,690
She was here. I have to tell you that
Andrew is dead.

313
00:20:05,050 --> 00:20:06,050
Are you sure?

314
00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:07,950
Yes, ma 'am, I am. I'm absolutely sure.

315
00:20:08,210 --> 00:20:10,650
I said, find her and I think you'll find
who did this.

316
00:20:12,170 --> 00:20:13,009
Fuck her.

317
00:20:13,010 --> 00:20:14,550
They don't even know, do they?

318
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,360
A summary of the evidence against
Shirley Turner.

319
00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:28,240
He was found on the morning of Tuesday,
November 6th, laying behind his car in a

320
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,080
parking lot at Keystone State Park in
Derry Township, Pennsylvania.

321
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,880
A man walking through Keystone Park at 6
.10 p .m. the previous evening,

322
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,600
November 5th, had seen his black Toyota
Corolla parked next to an SUV.

323
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:42,000
This was 10 minutes after he told Clark
he was going to meet Shirley.

324
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,560
Shirley drove a Toyota RAV4 SUV.

325
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,080
He was shot five times in the face, the
chest.

326
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,360
twice in the buttocks and in the back of
the head. He also received a blunt

327
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,720
trauma to the back of the head. That
didn't sound random. That sounded like

328
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:56,519
and vengeance.

329
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,100
The ammunition used was CCI .22 caliber
bullets.

330
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:02,420
There were six front casings and one
live round on the ground beside him.

331
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,260
Shirley owned a Phoenix Arms .22 caliber
handgun. I'm not going to kid you,

332
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:07,800
doctor. I know.

333
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:12,520
I'm interested in the gun. And you just
bought the gun, right? Not too long ago?

334
00:21:12,780 --> 00:21:16,900
Yeah. Well, I have it for protection.
Yeah, I can understand that. And I

335
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:17,980
to know for safety.

336
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,360
that instruction was a good thing. I
agree.

337
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,500
She had three lessons with a firearms
instructor who said that at her last

338
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:28,880
lesson, she was using CCI .22 caliber
ammunition, and her gun malfunctioned

339
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,380
would sometimes eject live rounds onto
the ground.

340
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,180
Would you be willing to turn the gun
into your local police department so

341
00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:36,720
could get it off and let us look at it?

342
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:42,960
Yes. And she said, no, I can't find it.
It's either in my closet or my bedroom,

343
00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:45,760
or it's in the car.

344
00:21:46,020 --> 00:21:47,020
And she said...

345
00:21:47,150 --> 00:21:50,450
I gave the gun to Andrew. She claimed
she was home sick all day on Monday,

346
00:21:50,510 --> 00:21:53,730
November 5th. I mean, even though I was
home sick at 7 o 'clock. When did you

347
00:21:53,730 --> 00:21:54,730
leave cocktail?

348
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:59,790
Um, I think it was Sunday.

349
00:21:59,990 --> 00:22:03,950
And I'm not going to lie to you, I
mean... The cell phone records show

350
00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:07,270
The phone call was made here, here,
here, and here. While she claims to be

351
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:11,110
in bed, she's making cell phone calls
from Chicago, Illinois at 7 .08 and 7

352
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:15,390
p .m. on Sunday, November 4th. Then
another from South Bend, Indiana at 10

353
00:22:15,390 --> 00:22:19,030
.m. that night. Then another from
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania at 8 .07 a .m.

354
00:22:19,030 --> 00:22:21,070
next morning, November 5th, the day he
was killed.

355
00:22:21,290 --> 00:22:24,050
She logged on to eBay that morning from
his computer at his house.

356
00:22:24,250 --> 00:22:27,670
And back again. At 11 .26 p .m. that
night, she makes another call from

357
00:22:27,670 --> 00:22:31,130
Cleveland, Ohio, clearly on her way home
this time. Then another call from

358
00:22:31,130 --> 00:22:33,490
Stewart, Iowa at 9 .48 a .m. the next
morning.

359
00:22:46,739 --> 00:22:49,740
When she realized that she couldn't
possibly be sick in bed when she'd been

360
00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:52,900
caught making cell phone calls from
Pennsylvania and back, she changed her

361
00:22:52,900 --> 00:22:53,900
again.

362
00:23:01,070 --> 00:23:04,430
As I can remember, even now, I guess I'm
ragging my brain.

363
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:08,830
Why was I here and there? Because I
didn't expect I had to come up with all

364
00:23:08,830 --> 00:23:10,230
this. And that clearly shows.

365
00:23:11,210 --> 00:23:17,790
If she did this, she planned it. She is
a manipulative, deceitful planner of a

366
00:23:17,790 --> 00:23:21,050
murder. And I'm not going to lie to you.
In order to prove her whereabouts when

367
00:23:21,050 --> 00:23:24,770
she made these phone calls, each
individual cell tower along her 16 -hour

368
00:23:24,770 --> 00:23:27,830
had to be manually checked, which was a
process that took almost two weeks.

369
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,860
While the police were uncovering this
crucial piece of evidence, Shirley left

370
00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:34,760
the United States for her home in St.
John's, Newfoundland.

371
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:40,760
We were absolutely helpless for the
whole time we were in Latrobe after this

372
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,700
initial nightmare.

373
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:49,860
The other residents and Andrews, they're
Andrews' friends now, came in, sat with

374
00:23:49,860 --> 00:23:51,160
us, brought us meals.

375
00:23:51,460 --> 00:23:55,600
They had a sign -up sheet at the
hospital to bring us a dinner and sit

376
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:56,600
with us.

377
00:23:58,380 --> 00:24:04,500
Listen to us and cry for more great
people. I mean, the whole hospital

378
00:24:04,660 --> 00:24:05,700
It was profound.

379
00:24:05,980 --> 00:24:11,640
Just picture the masses that just came
out for that. From memorials in

380
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,700
Newfoundland to California to England to
Latrobe. I'm so proud to say that I

381
00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:17,649
love you.

382
00:24:17,649 --> 00:24:22,030
You know, I'd be happy if I had one
-tenth of people who cares one -half

383
00:24:22,030 --> 00:24:23,310
me as much as they do Andrew.

384
00:24:44,770 --> 00:24:48,130
Well, I know at the point that we had
the memorial service, she was back in

385
00:24:48,130 --> 00:24:51,030
Canada, actually. She was there at the
memorial service that we had. She broke

386
00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:54,710
down crying during the service and
sobbing really loud.

387
00:24:55,870 --> 00:24:59,890
You know, I wondered if it was all just
for a show. And then fear at that point

388
00:24:59,890 --> 00:25:04,270
for, you know, Heather's safety
because... She came up and sort of

389
00:25:04,270 --> 00:25:08,850
my friends out beside me and said some
awful things.

390
00:25:09,740 --> 00:25:13,720
Obviously, I cared a lot more about him
than he ever cared about me, and I

391
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,680
definitely wasn't important in his life.
An email from Shirley.

392
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,280
A horrible, scathing email.

393
00:25:20,540 --> 00:25:23,180
It was all basically I was nothing and
she was everything.

394
00:25:23,420 --> 00:25:26,680
How wonderful their love was and how
that'll never die now.

395
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,600
To try to lure her back to the United
States, Shirley was invited to the

396
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,460
memorial service in California, but she
didn't take the bait.

397
00:25:33,140 --> 00:25:34,560
So finally, she was charged.

398
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:38,240
She was arrested in St. John's,
Newfoundland on December 12, 2001.

399
00:25:39,340 --> 00:25:41,480
and was let go on bail the very same
day.

400
00:25:41,900 --> 00:25:45,840
Then his flight risk, it seemed to me
common sense that if she isn't in the

401
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,020
jurisdiction where they want her, she's
fled.

402
00:25:48,260 --> 00:25:51,600
Crown prosecutor Mike Madden did not
even argue against her release on bail

403
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,220
instead entered the courtroom with an
agreement already in place for her

404
00:25:54,220 --> 00:25:57,320
release. Pending the next hearing in the
extradition process to the United

405
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,720
States, all justice David Russell
required Shirley to do was...

406
00:26:01,020 --> 00:26:03,140
Post $75 ,000 in sureties.

407
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,340
$65 ,000 of this was posted by her
personal psychiatrist, but I'll come

408
00:26:07,340 --> 00:26:10,700
him. Turn in her passport, sign in once
a week at the local police station,

409
00:26:10,860 --> 00:26:14,180
promise not to leave Newfoundland, and
avoid contact with these people.

410
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,140
And with that, the government of Canada
let a probable premeditated first

411
00:26:18,140 --> 00:26:19,660
-degree murderer walk the street.

412
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:21,400
I thought it was crazy.

413
00:26:21,740 --> 00:26:24,420
It should never be. It should never have
been. I thought it was insane.

414
00:26:24,740 --> 00:26:26,180
Who the hell is the system protecting?

415
00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:28,300
I could not believe this was happening.

416
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,520
But the most unbelievable part.

417
00:26:30,890 --> 00:26:32,050
was when we found out about you.

418
00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:34,650
Kurt, this is Matt Odinger.

419
00:26:34,930 --> 00:26:39,490
I just got a call from Mrs. Bagby. The
abbreviated version is, what's your

420
00:26:39,490 --> 00:26:40,490
bucket, that bitch?

421
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:45,130
Held a press conference and announced
that she's four months pregnant with

422
00:26:45,130 --> 00:26:46,130
Andrew's baby.

423
00:26:46,750 --> 00:26:48,510
They can't prove it until the child's
born.

424
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:56,670
If it is true that Bagby's are gonna sue
for custody... My movie now took

425
00:26:56,670 --> 00:26:57,670
on a whole new meaning.

426
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,440
It was no longer just my search for what
was left of your dad.

427
00:27:00,660 --> 00:27:04,340
It might be the only way you could one
day go back in time, see, and get to

428
00:27:04,340 --> 00:27:06,360
him. This is a time machine.

429
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:08,980
Yes, a time machine.

430
00:27:09,180 --> 00:27:11,800
And I vowed to collect every memory for
you before they were gone.

431
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:13,600
So finally, I set off.

432
00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:16,860
First, I would go to England to
interview your grandma's side of the

433
00:27:16,860 --> 00:27:20,380
you. Then I'd return to the U .S. to do
an epic road trip across North America.

434
00:27:20,810 --> 00:27:24,150
I'd start on the west coast of
California in Motor East, stopping to

435
00:27:24,150 --> 00:27:27,290
all of your dad's friends and family
along the way. And I would keep driving

436
00:27:27,290 --> 00:27:31,670
until the land ran out in St. John's,
Newfoundland, the easternmost point in

437
00:27:31,670 --> 00:27:36,570
of North America, where the last living
piece of Andrew, you, would be waiting

438
00:27:36,570 --> 00:27:40,730
for me. I grabbed a digital video
camera, a 16mm wind -up movie camera,

439
00:27:40,730 --> 00:27:42,170
old Nikon. I have a good idea.

440
00:27:42,570 --> 00:27:44,650
I'll go back in time and stop you from
dying.

441
00:27:44,930 --> 00:27:46,090
And set off on a quest.

442
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:47,840
to bring your dad back to life.

443
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,740
And while I raced to rescue your
history, your grandma and grandpa quit

444
00:27:51,740 --> 00:27:55,840
jobs, dug into their savings and gave up
everything to move to Newfoundland to

445
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:56,840
fight for your future.

446
00:27:58,980 --> 00:28:02,960
I met Kate and David in the spring of
2002.

447
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,280
I'll never forget it. They needed a
lawyer to assist them in making sure

448
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,480
their rights and the baby's rights were
protected, I guess.

449
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,140
I instantly...

450
00:28:12,650 --> 00:28:16,230
I thought that it was so important that
they have a relationship with that

451
00:28:16,230 --> 00:28:21,150
child. Our lawyer, Jackie, went to see
Betty Day, an administrator somewhere in

452
00:28:21,150 --> 00:28:26,550
the hierarchy of Child Protective
Services, and told her that we, the

453
00:28:26,650 --> 00:28:32,970
are concerned about the safety of the
baby because the mother is accused of a

454
00:28:32,970 --> 00:28:33,949
premeditated murder.

455
00:28:33,950 --> 00:28:38,190
To me, I thought they were very
emotionally intelligent in how they

456
00:28:49,220 --> 00:28:53,620
When your grandma and grandpa first
arrived in Canada, they were told the

457
00:28:53,620 --> 00:28:54,620
slow.

458
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,740
And they weren't kidding. February 15th,
prosecutor Mike Madden acknowledged

459
00:28:57,740 --> 00:29:01,600
that the extradition request had been
received. They adjourned until March

460
00:29:01,620 --> 00:29:04,420
when they decided they'd reconvene to
select a date for the extradition

461
00:29:04,420 --> 00:29:07,800
on March 25th, where they decided to set
the date for the extradition hearing

462
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,800
for May 27th, where they got caught up
debating the French versus English

463
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,420
translations of Section 32 of the
Extradition Act and decided to adjourn

464
00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:18,080
specific translation until June 11th, a
hearing which lasted five minutes, at

465
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,040
which Judge Derek Green said he wasn't
in a position to rule on the

466
00:29:21,060 --> 00:29:23,300
and they would adjourn again until July
30th.

467
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,100
And while they waited for justice and
for you to arrive, your grandma and

468
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:31,480
grandpa made a new home and new friends.
They made friends all over St.

469
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:34,400
John's, people in the legal community,
the medical community.

470
00:29:34,980 --> 00:29:39,540
But here at St. Michael's, yeah, they
got right in there and got right

471
00:29:40,140 --> 00:29:41,640
It seems like they've always been here.

472
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:44,960
Basically, they have more friends in
Newfoundland now than we do. Well, it's

473
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,700
very small province. You know, the
landmass is as big as, well, mainly not

474
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:51,760
as big as California, but not far off.

475
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,560
and yet we only have 530 ,000
populations scattered over that

476
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,220
can't go anywhere in St. John's without
running into somebody you know.

477
00:30:00,420 --> 00:30:03,940
I mean, it's the oldest city in North
America. It's a very safe place, I

478
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,400
The big drawback against living here is
getting out of here. The weather here is

479
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,640
terrible. The weather is awful. We have
eight months of winter and four months

480
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,880
of bad weather. And the other very
consistent thing that I hear is that the

481
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,840
people are so friendly. How would you
describe them to someone who's never met

482
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:19,840
them before?

483
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:24,020
Do you have an hour? I was hoping you
would ask me about Kate and David, who

484
00:30:24,020 --> 00:30:25,660
very... Young at heart.

485
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,080
Childish. That's not the right word.
He's an engineer in the truest sense of

486
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,740
word. The guy likes pintos, okay?

487
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,060
Logical. Does things in steps.

488
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,440
Logical steps.

489
00:30:35,460 --> 00:30:40,120
Comparing Andrew as a teenager and David
as a teenager, they're almost twins.

490
00:30:40,300 --> 00:30:41,300
He's an older model.

491
00:30:41,580 --> 00:30:44,180
Wonderful. Wonderful. He always calls
you mate.

492
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:45,660
His father does. Mate.

493
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,440
And Kate calls you love.

494
00:30:49,930 --> 00:30:52,830
Oh, I thought she was feisty. Like a
little ball of fire.

495
00:30:53,070 --> 00:30:56,450
She's so tiny and then big things come
out of her. It's great that she's on

496
00:30:56,450 --> 00:30:59,690
side because she'll always stand up for
what she believes in and those that she

497
00:30:59,690 --> 00:31:00,830
loves. They're a rare pair.

498
00:31:03,010 --> 00:31:04,250
They were from the start.

499
00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:09,450
In itself, it's quite a story, their
marriage, you know.

500
00:31:10,050 --> 00:31:13,410
I was going to come here for the two
years, and I was going on to Australia

501
00:31:13,410 --> 00:31:16,790
two years, work my way around the world,
and then I was going back to Devon. I

502
00:31:16,790 --> 00:31:19,810
wasn't going to get married because that
was not on my list of things to do at

503
00:31:19,810 --> 00:31:23,690
all. I was in the Navy, stationed on an
aircraft carrier, the Hornet, in Long

504
00:31:23,690 --> 00:31:24,569
Beach, California.

505
00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:28,430
A guy came into the shop one day, the E2
electronic shop, and said he had two

506
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:31,170
English nurses who wanted to go to
Disneyland. We were too cheap to pay the

507
00:31:31,170 --> 00:31:36,430
fare, yeah? Yeah, two cheap English
nurses. And I took the little one and

508
00:31:36,430 --> 00:31:37,730
him with the tall one.

509
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,140
They didn't work out so well, but we
did. We went out 13 times in the first

510
00:31:44,140 --> 00:31:47,800
weeks. And he could quote Shakespeare,
by the way, so I knew it was all right.

511
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:49,140
Five months later, I'm married.

512
00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:53,080
So we moved down to San Diego and
started working on a baby, but nothing

513
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,080
happened.

514
00:31:54,180 --> 00:31:59,040
You know, we tried to get pregnant for a
year, two years, with no result. At

515
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,940
some point, they mentioned that they
might adopt.

516
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,520
And then, I mean, it was, you know, it
was like a miracle.

517
00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:08,260
Coming to St. Louis and sleeping in.

518
00:32:08,830 --> 00:32:11,630
My mother's bedroom seemed to make
people pregnant.

519
00:32:11,890 --> 00:32:13,230
And then, of course, Andrew didn't come.

520
00:32:13,610 --> 00:32:17,470
He was two weeks late. Things people
should know about Andrew, he was never

521
00:32:17,470 --> 00:32:18,470
late.

522
00:32:50,350 --> 00:32:54,350
On July 18, 2002, you were born.

523
00:32:55,250 --> 00:32:57,290
Shirley named you Zachary Andrew Turner.

524
00:32:58,450 --> 00:33:01,950
Your grandma and grandpa came to the
hospital to see you, but Shirley

525
00:33:01,950 --> 00:33:02,950
let them in the door.

526
00:33:03,190 --> 00:33:05,750
They stood five feet away from you on
the other side of a wall.

527
00:33:07,710 --> 00:33:09,110
They left a gift for you.

528
00:33:13,470 --> 00:33:14,470
Well,

529
00:33:15,690 --> 00:33:17,730
your dad was an amazing person.

530
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,880
You're going to get such a broad range
of different perspectives of this guy.

531
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,320
You're going to know what his character
is like and you're going to know what

532
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,320
fun he was to be with.

533
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,880
and you're going to know that you can be
proud of him. I flew to England to

534
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,840
collect the memories of your grandma's
side of the family for you and arrived

535
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,620
just in time for a very special
occasion.

536
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,860
Well, we're on the eve of my wedding for
a start, but it's been a bit hectic.

537
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,820
We're just trying to fit this interview
in between all of the preparations.

538
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,160
Your dad crossed the Atlantic to come
here almost every summer, but instead of

539
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,400
heading to the tourist attractions in
London like everyone else, he'd head to

540
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,000
the outskirts to spend time with his
grandparents, aunts, uncles, and

541
00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:56,360
And in particular...

542
00:33:56,620 --> 00:34:00,080
with his cousin John. The main thing, I
guess, about being an only child is that

543
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,020
I get to choose my brothers.

544
00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:04,100
Others of you don't.

545
00:34:04,770 --> 00:34:08,750
Sorry, John, my brother, and Andrew were
born within months of each other. In

546
00:34:08,750 --> 00:34:11,610
fact, I think it was about 30 seconds
of, like, the normal child, who are you,

547
00:34:11,710 --> 00:34:16,489
who are you, and then suddenly, snap,
that was it. We often said that at least

548
00:34:16,489 --> 00:34:18,449
they would have each other through life.

549
00:34:18,690 --> 00:34:21,530
John would always have Andrew, and
Andrew would always have John.

550
00:34:21,830 --> 00:34:26,429
Me kind of blur into this kind of haze
of me and Andrew running around castles,

551
00:34:26,429 --> 00:34:30,449
country homes, gardens, living in these
fantastic, you know, historical places.

552
00:34:30,830 --> 00:34:33,090
And to us, they were places to play hide
-and -seek.

553
00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:36,909
Why would people shoot each other and
then get told off and thrown out? The

554
00:34:36,909 --> 00:34:41,010
interesting thing always was just like
the cultural differences between someone

555
00:34:41,010 --> 00:34:42,010
coming from the U .S.

556
00:34:42,330 --> 00:34:45,469
and someone in the U .K. You know, that
used to really bug me. The fact that I

557
00:34:45,469 --> 00:34:48,510
knew he was going to get Star Wars, you
know, kind of six months before me, that

558
00:34:48,510 --> 00:34:49,510
was a killer.

559
00:34:49,850 --> 00:34:52,830
Because, you know, it'd be like, you
know, don't you dare tell anything about

560
00:34:52,830 --> 00:34:53,649
this man.

561
00:34:53,650 --> 00:34:56,429
It was almost kind of as well my kind of
chaperone inter.

562
00:34:57,420 --> 00:35:00,340
discovered in the U .S., really. You
hear people discriminate against the

563
00:35:00,340 --> 00:35:03,500
country just in one fell swoop. You
know, but I was fortunate enough to know

564
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:04,500
very differently to that.

565
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:11,840
I really cherish that because it is my
brother that got married here

566
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:12,839
tonight.

567
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,560
Bizarrely enough, one of the things is I
always wanted Andrew to be my best man

568
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:16,459
at my wedding.

569
00:35:16,460 --> 00:35:20,100
As I would soon find out, he was in good
company. I'd always wanted him to be my

570
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:23,360
best man. I'd asked him to be my best
man. It just made sense to have him as

571
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,900
best man. I can only assume that you
would have asked him to be your best

572
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,820
Everybody grab your glass. We're going
to turn over the best man, Andrew. Best

573
00:35:29,820 --> 00:35:32,760
man's a little bit of a poor title for
these things. I mean, the best man's

574
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:33,459
really the crew.

575
00:35:33,460 --> 00:35:39,580
I've got to try and sum up 20 some odd
years in like two minutes or so because,

576
00:35:39,660 --> 00:35:42,220
you know, then people will start looking
at the champagne and thinking, Bagby,

577
00:35:42,260 --> 00:35:43,260
shut up or die.

578
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,400
I miss him a lot.

579
00:35:59,980 --> 00:36:06,620
I wish he was here at the wedding

580
00:36:06,620 --> 00:36:07,620
with us.

581
00:36:08,580 --> 00:36:13,160
I'd just like to just sit him down and
talk to him again.

582
00:36:14,420 --> 00:36:16,380
Just have him there with us.

583
00:36:17,620 --> 00:36:19,960
I really believe your dad wasn't there
that day.

584
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,860
And if we could have heard him give his
toast, it might have sounded something

585
00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:26,160
like this. Why am I standing up here?

586
00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:28,540
I guess part of it I've already said.

587
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:36,120
We're brothers, and I love you, and I
know you love me, and... Yeah,

588
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,400
I kind of need to move on from that,
because like I said, I'm a bagby male.

589
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,940
don't gush very much.

590
00:36:49,230 --> 00:36:53,450
It made me realize that it doesn't
matter where you come from.

591
00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:59,490
You can meet someone and literally
within minutes, you can be closer than

592
00:36:59,490 --> 00:37:03,170
someone you've known for 20 years and
someone who might just end up being as a

593
00:37:03,170 --> 00:37:04,170
friend for the rest of your life.

594
00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:07,250
And last question, is there anything
you'd like to say to Zachary?

595
00:37:07,890 --> 00:37:08,890
Zachary?

596
00:37:09,790 --> 00:37:10,790
Right.

597
00:37:11,790 --> 00:37:12,790
Yeah,

598
00:37:13,050 --> 00:37:15,910
I hope to see you soon, Zachary, anyway.

599
00:37:19,089 --> 00:37:22,230
Jackie had been down earlier in the day
to file the papers that we wanted

600
00:37:22,230 --> 00:37:23,370
custody of the baby.

601
00:37:23,630 --> 00:37:27,830
We finally went to court because we...
You mean family court? Yes, family

602
00:37:27,970 --> 00:37:32,410
You know, they negotiated with her. I
think you know that already, and what

603
00:37:32,410 --> 00:37:34,290
access they got with Shirley, they
negotiated.

604
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:37,270
We were coming up with agreements with
this accused murderer, and then Shirley

605
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:39,610
turned and came up with something else
just at the moment when it was all

606
00:37:39,610 --> 00:37:40,610
looking good.

607
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,020
She always did that so that it would
extend. It was like, I don't have to pay

608
00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:47,360
for my lawyer, you have to pay for
yours, so the longer I can make it, it's

609
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,720
better, you know, you run out of money.
But then she finally agreed to give us

610
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,780
one hour a week in Unified Family Court.

611
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,100
Shirley delayed your grandma and grandpa
from meeting you for almost a month and

612
00:37:57,100 --> 00:38:00,340
had them treated like common criminals
in order to see you. She required that

613
00:38:00,340 --> 00:38:03,100
during their one -hour visit they be
fully searched and monitored by a

614
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:05,260
supervisor while she waited in the next
room.

615
00:38:05,890 --> 00:38:10,070
When did you first meet him? Meet him
personally or meet him by seeing the

616
00:38:10,070 --> 00:38:11,390
in Kate and David's eyes?

617
00:38:11,650 --> 00:38:14,730
I mean, we were searched and everything.
I couldn't wait for him to search. I

618
00:38:14,730 --> 00:38:18,390
would have sipped off all my clothes as
long as I could get into that baby. We

619
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:21,490
went around the corner and there was
this overpowering thing.

620
00:38:41,070 --> 00:38:43,390
We did not do complete tug -of -war,
though.

621
00:38:43,770 --> 00:38:46,290
No? I just gave him the cake.

622
00:38:46,770 --> 00:38:48,590
No, no, no, we shared it.

623
00:38:49,130 --> 00:38:53,050
The next visit he was really... The next
time he was dirty, so I changed his

624
00:38:53,050 --> 00:38:56,690
diaper, and that's when he opened his
eyes and started to look at me, and

625
00:38:56,690 --> 00:38:58,350
when I said to David, oh, my God, he's
Andrew.

626
00:38:58,550 --> 00:39:01,490
I had seen lots of pictures of Andrew at
this point, and even the pictures of

627
00:39:01,490 --> 00:39:05,690
him as a child, and I thought, holy
crow, you know, there's no doubt.

628
00:39:05,930 --> 00:39:08,630
We wanted more time, so we went back.

629
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,360
And this time she accused us of keeping
him beyond the time so that he was

630
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,820
distraught when he went back to her.
She'd try a lot of manipulations without

631
00:39:16,820 --> 00:39:17,820
thinking them through.

632
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,900
And this one was, you know, a no
-bringer, really.

633
00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:28,000
If she accuses us of doing anything
wrong to the baby, where she's

634
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,540
indirectly accusing Maureen of being a
slouch.

635
00:39:30,980 --> 00:39:31,979
The supervisor.

636
00:39:31,980 --> 00:39:34,080
The supervisor. You know, Maureen's not
going to take that.

637
00:39:34,780 --> 00:39:36,140
So she just didn't think it through.

638
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,220
While your grandparents and Jackie
battled Shirley for more time with you

639
00:39:39,220 --> 00:39:42,820
family court, the law on the extradition
proceedings was still slow. September

640
00:39:42,820 --> 00:39:46,240
19th, the extradition hearing finally
began and evidence was finally

641
00:39:46,540 --> 00:39:49,680
But just as everything was moving along
smoothly, Shirley's lawyer, Randy

642
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,140
Piercy, threw a wrench into the works.
Because the authority to proceed with

643
00:39:53,140 --> 00:39:56,360
these hearings provided by the Minister
of Justice early that year had failed to

644
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,320
specify subsections one or two of
section 229A of the criminal code, the

645
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,680
authority to proceed was invalid, the 90
-day limit to amend it was now passed,

646
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,950
and therefore... all extradition
proceedings against Shirley should be

647
00:40:06,950 --> 00:40:08,150
so she could get on with her life.

648
00:40:09,230 --> 00:40:12,450
Judge Derek Green now had to rule on
whether or not to throw out the entire

649
00:40:12,450 --> 00:40:16,550
case, which would take place on October
18th, which was delayed four days until

650
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:20,010
October 22nd, where Judge Green told
Piercy to forget about it and said they

651
00:40:20,010 --> 00:40:22,750
would continue with the extradition
hearing on November 14th.

652
00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:28,070
Meanwhile, I came back to California,
pointed the van east toward

653
00:40:28,210 --> 00:40:31,590
and set off across the continent on my
way to see you, stopping all over the

654
00:40:31,590 --> 00:40:34,190
to collect the memories of the whole
spectrum of people your dad touched.

655
00:40:37,230 --> 00:40:40,710
But it was when I pulled into St. Louis
to see your grandpa's family... Are you

656
00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:41,348
the oldest?

657
00:40:41,350 --> 00:40:42,350
Yeah, I'm the oldest.

658
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:46,350
Bob was the middleman. He's one year
younger than me. ...that I discovered a

659
00:40:46,350 --> 00:40:49,150
very special place where your dad had
left his heart.

660
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:51,470
Andrew and Bob were very, very close.

661
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,160
To see them around each other, you'd
think that Andrew had grown up his

662
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,600
life around Bob.

663
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,980
You wouldn't know that it was a once -a
-summer relationship.

664
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,720
Bob used to take Andrew out and let him
drive the truck before he was old

665
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:08,760
enough. They played pool. My dad was
very good at pool, but then Mac came

666
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,760
who was even probably better at pool.

667
00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:15,000
I would say he was excellent, but he
wasn't as good as me. He probably stole

668
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,040
around $30 ,000.

669
00:41:16,660 --> 00:41:20,180
Hey, Mac is my daughter Rhonda's.

670
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:21,720
First cousins.

671
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,660
I don't know. They just clicked. I mean,
they just clicked. I can't explain why

672
00:41:25,660 --> 00:41:26,339
or anything.

673
00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:27,440
Automatically my little brother.

674
00:41:28,420 --> 00:41:29,640
That's why I looked at it.

675
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,720
We just come for in.

676
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,720
This is our clubhouse that me and Bob
had.

677
00:41:40,860 --> 00:41:43,900
And he used to love to come down here.

678
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:48,280
As soon as he'd hit town, we'd come down
here and we'd just stay for days. Dave

679
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,180
and Katie and them would come out,
always have a big barbecue or fish fry.

680
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,300
Get the John boat and head up the river.
He was captain.

681
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,320
Me and Bob got to the point where we
didn't even think about who was going to

682
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:57,118
drive the boat.

683
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:02,000
At nighttime, they'd stack up logs and
build a bonfire and we'd buy fireworks.

684
00:42:02,260 --> 00:42:05,160
It'd be beautiful because it was real
dark out. It was stupid of me checking

685
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,360
see if you're hurt. When you're going to
be a damn doctor, you ought to know

686
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,560
yourself. I said, if you're smart, you'd
be a guy in college.

687
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,660
The doctor came into the room and said
he had bad news.

688
00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:21,640
He said that the cancer had spread to
his bones and to his liver.

689
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:23,500
Mom looked at him and said, I want the
truth.

690
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,800
He said in three to six months.

691
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,680
I mean, I can come down here any time I
want. I just don't have time anymore,

692
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,160
really. I lost.

693
00:42:37,770 --> 00:42:41,450
Well, I lost total interest in a lot of
things when Bob died for some reason.

694
00:42:42,430 --> 00:42:44,310
I know it was hard on Andrew, too.

695
00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:49,150
But he wrote me a little note, letter.

696
00:42:51,750 --> 00:42:53,290
Bob was very proud of him.

697
00:42:55,250 --> 00:42:57,390
Imagine him and Andrew laughing at me
right now.

698
00:43:02,030 --> 00:43:03,190
Those assholes.

699
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:11,710
Yeah, I'm supposed to say that.

700
00:43:15,530 --> 00:43:16,530
I'll be okay.

701
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:21,230
Here, come give me a hug. Is there
anything you'd like to say to Zachary

702
00:43:21,230 --> 00:43:22,670
that? He was great.

703
00:43:23,310 --> 00:43:26,590
Is there anything I can do? I'll be
there. Oh, we hope to see him.

704
00:43:26,810 --> 00:43:28,670
And we can show him pictures and
everything.

705
00:43:29,070 --> 00:43:32,310
Yeah, we'd love to be a part of that as
well, to share our lives with him. Oh,

706
00:43:32,330 --> 00:43:34,470
how I wish I could be there and pinch
those little cheeks.

707
00:43:36,750 --> 00:43:38,730
Zachary, you'll never know what you bit.

708
00:43:52,850 --> 00:43:57,790
On November 14, 2002, Judge Derek Green
declared that a properly instructed jury

709
00:43:57,790 --> 00:44:01,350
could likely find Shirley guilty and
ordered her incarcerated in the

710
00:44:01,350 --> 00:44:04,350
Correctional Center for Women, awaiting
a decision for the Minister of Justice

711
00:44:04,350 --> 00:44:05,930
to surrender her to the United States.

712
00:44:06,210 --> 00:44:09,810
She always seemed to know exactly when
to turn nice. And it was a pretty

713
00:44:09,810 --> 00:44:12,700
time to turn nice. Suddenly, Shirley
turned around and gave your grandma and

714
00:44:12,700 --> 00:44:14,780
grandpa custody of you for as long as
she was in prison.

715
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,840
We could stop in and see him whenever we
liked.

716
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:18,240
And we did.

717
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:22,200
They were so excited. It was Christmas
Eve. And, you know, it had started to

718
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,820
snow a little bit. And the doorbell was
ringing. And someone showed up with a

719
00:44:25,820 --> 00:44:28,980
present. And then I think Alan Goodrich,
he was a professor, one of our

720
00:44:28,980 --> 00:44:31,000
professors. He showed up with a...

721
00:44:31,819 --> 00:44:32,819
I don't know what.

722
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,620
And then, you know, finally, I said, why
do you got like the Magi showing up at

723
00:44:36,620 --> 00:44:41,280
your house? We went to church with them
on Christmas Eve. If Zachary got fussy,

724
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:45,000
you know, they would pick him up and
they would feed him and they'd walk to

725
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,220
back of the church. If there's people in
this church that don't know the five of

726
00:44:48,220 --> 00:44:51,720
us, it looks like these are the
grandparents, we're the parents, and

727
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:56,560
our child. I said, we look like terrible
parents. He would be saddened with

728
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:00,140
them. The child was, you know, no one
could comfort him, only Kate.

729
00:45:00,650 --> 00:45:01,910
They were so happy.

730
00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:05,150
But it wasn't all sweetness and light.
You came with strings attached.

731
00:45:05,450 --> 00:45:09,590
The reason we reached consent and the
reason she reached consent is if you

732
00:45:09,590 --> 00:45:12,550
consent, you have some control.

733
00:45:13,350 --> 00:45:18,310
We accept a phone call a day from jail
to talk about Zachary. Which the phone

734
00:45:18,310 --> 00:45:22,650
call home would have done anyway. This
is Alliance Telecom. You have a collect

735
00:45:22,650 --> 00:45:24,330
call from Shirley.

736
00:45:24,770 --> 00:45:27,530
You may press one now to accept the
charge.

737
00:45:27,770 --> 00:45:28,790
Thank you. Hello?

738
00:45:29,180 --> 00:45:30,760
Hi. Yeah, hi. Are you babysitting?

739
00:45:30,980 --> 00:45:33,820
Just got up. He's a little teary -eyed,
but here you go, boss.

740
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:35,380
Hi, sweetheart.

741
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,740
Zachary, how is our baby today?

742
00:45:40,220 --> 00:45:41,220
Oh, hi.

743
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:43,860
Are you having a good day with Grandma
and Granddad?

744
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,640
Zachary, I love you, baby.

745
00:45:46,220 --> 00:45:47,220
Mommy loves you.

746
00:45:47,500 --> 00:45:48,500
Mommy misses you.

747
00:45:49,100 --> 00:45:51,680
Christmas is coming, and you're getting
all ready for Christmas.

748
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:55,240
I hate every time I call you, I have to
ask you guys a favor, but you're not

749
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:58,700
supposed to know this is a surprise, a
surprise for you from Zachary. I don't

750
00:45:58,700 --> 00:46:01,540
know what to give Zachary. Some of those
frames even at the dollar stores will

751
00:46:01,540 --> 00:46:04,920
say, there'll be little sayings on them,
like if you want to say Mommy and Daddy

752
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,380
on a frame and put a picture of me and
Andrew in it, I don't know, or, you

753
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:09,339
Mommy with Baby.

754
00:46:09,340 --> 00:46:11,640
What about the one of me and Andrew? Did
you have anywhere to put that?

755
00:46:11,940 --> 00:46:13,120
Not yet. Not yet.

756
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:17,700
Do you feel all right about putting that
off? Not quite yet. Yes, okay. Now, I

757
00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:21,240
want to ask you how it keeps doing. I
thought about her all night. I wrote her

758
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:24,520
long letter last night to try and make
her feel better.

759
00:46:24,860 --> 00:46:31,720
I think, I've got to say it again, the
details are too touchy

760
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:36,580
for us to do like this. I think our
lawyers should hammer them out. It's

761
00:46:36,580 --> 00:46:40,260
amazing to me how well you guys are
taking care of them.

762
00:46:40,810 --> 00:46:44,590
The way I would be taking care of him,
even Randy Pearson, he was like,

763
00:46:44,790 --> 00:46:48,110
are you sure you can trust these people?
And I said, yes, I am. He said, do you

764
00:46:48,110 --> 00:46:51,490
really believe they love the child? I
said, yes, as much as I do. We'd bring

765
00:46:51,490 --> 00:46:53,630
up to the prison for a weekly visit.

766
00:46:54,010 --> 00:46:55,890
That you would have from 2 to 4.

767
00:46:56,130 --> 00:46:58,370
Yes. And then again from 5 to 7.

768
00:46:58,610 --> 00:46:59,870
That was astounding.

769
00:47:06,049 --> 00:47:10,210
Imposition. Each week they would drive
two hours to the jail where Shirley was

770
00:47:10,210 --> 00:47:14,150
so that she would be able to see her son
and to follow the visitation rights

771
00:47:14,150 --> 00:47:18,270
because just as Kate and David wanted
visitation rights, they had to honor

772
00:47:18,270 --> 00:47:22,270
Shirley's visitation rights. And in the
winter. But the weather, needless to

773
00:47:22,270 --> 00:47:24,390
say, in Newfoundland. The weather here
is terrible.

774
00:47:24,630 --> 00:47:25,850
I mean, that journey was awful.

775
00:47:27,010 --> 00:47:29,350
Only Kate and David would have done it,
really, I think.

776
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,000
Nobody else would have done it. The one
guard, the one day, said to Kate and

777
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:41,080
David, speaking to Zachary, Zachary, I
hope someday you will realize how brave

778
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,780
and courageous your grandparents are.

779
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,600
Like, I think if I could be a quarter of
the grandma that Kate is, I'd be such a

780
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:49,600
success.

781
00:47:49,720 --> 00:47:53,700
You know, seeing them with Zachary, just
see the looks on their faces, Kurt,

782
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,420
when they'd have them, you know. You
know, to see them so happy.

783
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:07,420
And then, you know, that ended, didn't
it?

784
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,460
Now crossing the east coast of the U
.S., I was almost to you. I pulled off

785
00:48:14,460 --> 00:48:18,300
main road for one last stop, a small
town utopia where your dad had spent the

786
00:48:18,300 --> 00:48:19,520
last four months of his life.

787
00:48:19,780 --> 00:48:23,100
It was here that I would find the only
people who knew what he was like as a

788
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:27,040
doctor, just days before they would
graduate and scatter to the winds. Oh,

789
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,340
Trobe is famous for...

790
00:48:28,830 --> 00:48:29,769
Mr. Rogers.

791
00:48:29,770 --> 00:48:32,730
Of children's TV fame. Rolling Rock
beer.

792
00:48:33,070 --> 00:48:37,370
The birthplace of professional football,
though some would argue that. It's

793
00:48:37,370 --> 00:48:40,850
Strickler's Pharmacy. I'm told that the
banana split was invented here in

794
00:48:40,850 --> 00:48:43,890
Latrobe. And Arnold Palmer. Mr. Palmer
is a very...

795
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,260
important figure in this community this
is a community where people don't even

796
00:48:47,260 --> 00:48:50,060
lock their doors your dad's door was
directly across the street from the

797
00:48:50,060 --> 00:48:53,740
hospital giving him a 30 second commute
to work and i said can i call you andy

798
00:48:53,740 --> 00:48:57,140
and he goes actually i don't like andy
you could call me andrew you call me

799
00:48:57,140 --> 00:49:01,520
bagby you can call me bags i never did
10 minutes after i arrived dr bill di

800
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:04,520
cuccio picked me up to show me around
town was there anyone that seemed like

801
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,600
was particularly close with his class it
was bill di cuccio and after hanging

802
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,360
with bill for a short while i completely
understood why this is yours to take

803
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,300
with you in your travels remember the
chief resident's office they were like

804
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:19,420
mutton jeff they were tweedledee and
tweedledum bill was just devastated as

805
00:49:19,420 --> 00:49:23,640
all were but especially so i think bill
had spent more time with him and i i

806
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,460
know there's a third year resident clark
was quite close with him he was

807
00:49:28,209 --> 00:49:32,190
A surgical resident from Syracuse. Being
a former surgical intern, that's a big

808
00:49:32,190 --> 00:49:35,770
deal. They're all about cutting and what
we do is a little bit different. It's

809
00:49:35,770 --> 00:49:36,770
more about people.

810
00:49:36,930 --> 00:49:40,130
I would say to them, now you go out
there and you go and you listen to the

811
00:49:40,130 --> 00:49:42,910
and you talk to those people because,
you know, like people talk. They're not

812
00:49:42,910 --> 00:49:45,910
just unconscious all the time. Your dad
also had an office visit every Monday

813
00:49:45,910 --> 00:49:47,990
afternoon at the last place he was ever
seen alive.

814
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,020
A clinic in the small town of Salzburg,
a beautiful 30 -minute drive away

815
00:49:52,020 --> 00:49:55,560
through the country, passed a lovely
spot called Keystone State Park.

816
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,520
He was already, just within a couple of
months, already getting patients to call

817
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:05,540
and specifically ask for him. People
trusted him when he walked into a room.

818
00:50:05,540 --> 00:50:07,220
medicine's a little like being a
detective.

819
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,100
Has anyone else in your family
experienced this? When you think of

820
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:15,920
have passed, you can't help but paint a
rosy glow around them. More than half of

821
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,460
it. Being able to get a story out of
somebody.

822
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,320
It's not what's happening in this case.

823
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,180
I'll always be grateful to him because
he diagnosed my nephew's cancer. And he

824
00:50:23,180 --> 00:50:25,520
diagnosed it early enough that he was
able to get complete treatment.

825
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,400
He was really pretty outstanding at this
stuff. He was told he may never have

826
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,400
children, so he just has a newborn baby.
He always told me that he wanted to

827
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:38,720
practice in a town behind the wardrobe
and be like the doc of the town, know

828
00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:39,980
everybody, know everybody's family.

829
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:41,960
And we really thought he found heaven.

830
00:50:44,759 --> 00:50:47,680
But we packed our bags, went to bed,
because we knew we were going to be

831
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:48,538
the next morning.

832
00:50:48,540 --> 00:50:53,900
And we stayed in the upstairs spare
bedroom of Andrew's house. Next morning,

833
00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:55,220
saw him off at 6 .30.

834
00:50:55,580 --> 00:50:58,560
And as I said, that's when I noticed he
was blinking for the first time.

835
00:50:59,260 --> 00:51:02,980
And he did that when he was a little
boy, when he was nervous or worried

836
00:51:02,980 --> 00:51:06,080
something. Just blink, blink, blink.

837
00:51:06,580 --> 00:51:10,120
And I wanted to say to him, oh, Andrew,
what's the matter? He stood up.

838
00:51:10,590 --> 00:51:14,190
And I remember he looked at us for such
a long time, but he came over and he

839
00:51:14,190 --> 00:51:18,230
kissed me and kissed his dad. And then
he got halfway into that room and he

840
00:51:18,230 --> 00:51:20,750
back and kissed us again and we went
with him and he kissed us again at the

841
00:51:20,750 --> 00:51:25,430
door. And then he got across the
hospital there, down that alley, and

842
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:30,830
went... And he was gone.

843
00:51:32,490 --> 00:51:37,830
That was the last time until... ..we saw
him dead.

844
00:51:38,830 --> 00:51:45,450
And I can remember Andrew saying, if I
die tomorrow, all I want you to do is

845
00:51:45,450 --> 00:51:51,050
sit and toast a beer to me. Do you
remember that? When his parents had

846
00:51:51,050 --> 00:51:56,030
cleaning out his apartment, they gave me
his last beer. We have one bottle

847
00:51:56,030 --> 00:52:00,210
remaining. We're going to crack Andrew's
last Fuller's ESB right now, and Kurt

848
00:52:00,210 --> 00:52:01,330
and I are going to sip it together.

849
00:52:01,690 --> 00:52:03,190
A little toast to our friend.

850
00:52:04,670 --> 00:52:07,470
To Andrew, my good friend, I can't wait
to see you again.

851
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,340
The unthinkable happened again, they let
her out of jail again, and then we had

852
00:52:16,340 --> 00:52:19,840
to give him back on January 10th, 2003.

853
00:52:20,340 --> 00:52:23,260
Curley was out of money and out of a
lawyer, so she wrote directly to Judge

854
00:52:23,260 --> 00:52:26,360
Derek Green, who responded through his
secretary with instructions on how to

855
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,420
write her own appeal of his decision to
incarcerate her while awaiting an order

856
00:52:29,420 --> 00:52:32,760
from the Minister of Justice to
surrender her to the state. I have a few

857
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,860
who are judges, and there's no way they
would ever have responded.

858
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:41,620
in the way that judge responded to
Shirley. She did and was let back onto

859
00:52:41,620 --> 00:52:43,960
streets by Judge Gail Welsh.

860
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:48,340
Judge Gail Welsh. Welsh refused to even
consider prosecutor Mike Madden's

861
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:51,100
argument that Shirley's appeal was
frivolous, even though multiple legal

862
00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:54,240
commission attorneys had reviewed her
appeal and refused to waste their time

863
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:57,520
representing her. And if you could have
seen, I knew that we were going to be

864
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,540
seeing Shirley Turner walk free. The
minute that woman walked into the room,

865
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:06,300
Judge Welsh, she was almost fawning with
Shirley Turner as I saw it. Oh, Dr.

866
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:10,140
Turner, she said. I recognize that
you're not represented, but also know

867
00:53:10,140 --> 00:53:13,660
a doctor, you're quite capable. So I'm
going to run Dr. Turner. I'm not trying

868
00:53:13,660 --> 00:53:16,920
to exclude. However, the argument would
work to your benefit. That's why I'm

869
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,820
particularly interested in Mr. Madden's
response.

870
00:53:19,100 --> 00:53:22,420
I'd taken Zachary to prison. I'd sat in
that same little room with her. And here

871
00:53:22,420 --> 00:53:25,420
I am having to listen to this and the
judge fawn on this woman. And Welsh

872
00:53:25,420 --> 00:53:28,520
actually asked an accused murderer to
promise she'd behave herself.

873
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,860
If I make an order giving you judicial
interim release, it would be on the

874
00:53:31,860 --> 00:53:34,640
that you would not attempt to plea or
hide or avoid subsequent judicial

875
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,080
proceedings related to this matter?

876
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,840
Yes. Is that completely understood by
you? Yes, I completely understand.

877
00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:41,960
And here David and I as if we don't
even...

878
00:53:42,170 --> 00:53:45,430
exist and we don't exist they don't care
about us they don't even care about the

879
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:49,130
victim she concluded that and this is
from her written decision dr turner's

880
00:53:49,130 --> 00:53:52,290
detention is not necessary in the public
interest while the offense with which

881
00:53:52,290 --> 00:53:55,890
he is charged is a violent and serious
one it was not directed at the public at

882
00:53:55,890 --> 00:53:59,190
large there is no indication of a
psychological disorder that would give

883
00:53:59,190 --> 00:54:03,010
about potential harm to the public
generally as her crime while violence

884
00:54:03,010 --> 00:54:07,230
specific in nature she is saying in
effect if i understand that that

885
00:54:07,230 --> 00:54:09,030
even if she did it

886
00:54:10,049 --> 00:54:13,690
She's not a danger to the community
because she's already killed the only

887
00:54:13,690 --> 00:54:16,330
she wanted to kill. He's the one she was
mad at.

888
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:18,190
He's dead.

889
00:54:19,110 --> 00:54:21,150
So she's not likely to kill again.

890
00:54:22,770 --> 00:54:27,710
And I find that logic absolutely
atrocious. Most of us do not kill people

891
00:54:27,710 --> 00:54:31,210
anger us. We go kick a door, scream and
shout. Some of us throw a punch. We

892
00:54:31,210 --> 00:54:35,230
don't set them up and kill them. You
have here a human being who thinks they

893
00:54:35,230 --> 00:54:38,250
have the right to kill other people who
anger them.

894
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:44,120
And you still let them out in the
general populace. I find that appalling.

895
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,100
was again let go on $75 ,000 in
sureties, not one penny of which had to

896
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,120
And with that, the government of Canada
let a probable premeditated first

897
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,860
-degree murderer walk the street again.

898
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:57,440
And they gave you back to her.

899
00:55:00,620 --> 00:55:05,600
And after that, things got really weird.
I don't think it's a good idea for us

900
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:06,600
to meet.

901
00:55:07,310 --> 00:55:13,690
Okay. We went and wrote another consent
order, and we agreed to a schedule of

902
00:55:13,690 --> 00:55:18,830
visits with like three or four hours,
three times a week, and an overnight

903
00:55:18,830 --> 00:55:25,190
two weeks. We got them to let us have
more contact with Shirley

904
00:55:25,190 --> 00:55:30,590
in order to pass him back and forth,
otherwise we never could have done it.

905
00:55:31,550 --> 00:55:36,850
Hello? Hello, Shirley. Hi. David. Yeah.
How's Zachary? He's good.

906
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,580
I'd like to confirm tomorrow morning's 9
o 'clock visit. Because we've always

907
00:55:40,580 --> 00:55:44,380
had to arrange for a third party, and
then that third party would be not

908
00:55:44,380 --> 00:55:48,740
available, and we saw that we'd never
get visits with the baby because she

909
00:55:48,740 --> 00:55:51,660
always find a reason that there was
nobody there, you know? I'll be there at

910
00:55:51,660 --> 00:55:54,220
to pick him up. Okay. We switched it to
Tuesday.

911
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,560
We're trying to do it that way, you know
what I mean? Instead of having two days

912
00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:58,138
in a row.

913
00:55:58,140 --> 00:56:00,420
So this evolved into us.

914
00:56:01,990 --> 00:56:04,710
Actually spending a great deal of time
with Shirley Turner.

915
00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:12,170
In order to be around Zachary.

916
00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:19,750
Go to the mall.

917
00:56:21,790 --> 00:56:27,490
She came here, bold as brass.

918
00:56:28,140 --> 00:56:31,240
Coming to be in our face kind of thing.
It's just lucky we're all the same

919
00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:33,360
religion. I mean, that's just the way it
turned out, really.

920
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:38,600
I had enormous fears for them. I had
fear that Shirley would go for them.

921
00:56:38,740 --> 00:56:42,280
Basically, I just want your word that
I'm going to know where he's at, like

922
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:45,980
babysitter, you know. And they didn't
seem to be worried for themselves. In

923
00:56:45,980 --> 00:56:48,260
fact, they said they weren't. You know,
if you're going to take them anywhere to

924
00:56:48,260 --> 00:56:49,400
stay, surely we're going to...

925
00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:50,880
running through this, is it okay?

926
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:55,200
Because at this point they didn't care.
I know you wouldn't be worried if we

927
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,420
disappeared for a couple of days or
whatever, right?

928
00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,560
I know he's there, right?

929
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:01,880
I'm joking.

930
00:57:04,740 --> 00:57:05,740
Disgusting. Oh, disgusting.

931
00:57:06,100 --> 00:57:10,560
There has been, I guess, a lot of
uncomfortable feelings on both our

932
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:14,140
would really like for you and Kate to
reconsider getting some help with that.

933
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:17,740
But going up to the door, I mean... I
was really upset when you took him today

934
00:57:17,740 --> 00:57:21,120
because I feel like I did today. You saw
him at Unified Family Court.

935
00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:24,380
Having to be with her. I don't know if
he's okay with you.

936
00:57:24,740 --> 00:57:28,280
I know you're not going to hurt him, but
I don't know what you're saying to him.

937
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,480
It's just nauseating. Look.

938
00:57:40,780 --> 00:57:45,440
I know you don't want to, you don't tend
to, but if we don't get help, we don't

939
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:49,840
know if we're doing what's best. We
religiously did not talk about the case.

940
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,200
don't like this answer, but I'm kidding.

941
00:58:17,619 --> 00:58:23,640
I thought it was like being at war.

942
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:28,040
Nobody wants to do it, but you've got to
do it.

943
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:34,720
Facing this bitch.

944
00:58:37,820 --> 00:58:44,680
The price we had to pay to make sure we
had a good connection with Zachary.

945
00:58:45,220 --> 00:58:49,400
He knew us, we knew him.

946
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:57,400
So that when she finally went to prison,
he'd have a smooth transition into our

947
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:58,400
life.

948
00:59:13,620 --> 00:59:19,700
I just feel awe about that. I can't... I
don't know how they did it, Kurt.

949
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,480
I don't know how they did it, but I know
why they did it.

950
00:59:38,090 --> 00:59:43,370
And finally, after thousands of miles
and memories, on a rainy Sunday

951
00:59:43,690 --> 00:59:45,430
we met.

952
00:59:48,830 --> 00:59:49,830
Hello, bud.

953
00:59:50,450 --> 00:59:53,470
Hello. This is your Uncle Kurt.

954
00:59:53,790 --> 00:59:54,790
Aww.

955
00:59:56,350 --> 00:59:57,430
Here we go.

956
00:59:59,970 --> 01:00:03,750
You know your daddy from when he was a
little boy.

957
01:00:04,570 --> 01:00:05,570
Yeah.

958
01:00:07,790 --> 01:00:10,070
Is there anything you would like to say
to Zachary?

959
01:00:10,750 --> 01:00:11,750
Oh, wow.

960
01:00:11,810 --> 01:00:12,890
Without tearing up here.

961
01:00:14,650 --> 01:00:16,610
First of all, I saw your pictures.

962
01:00:17,350 --> 01:00:22,070
And you are a very cute kid. And you
look exactly like Andrew. Definitely the

963
01:00:22,070 --> 01:00:23,810
cheeky Andrew face. Definitely.

964
01:00:25,610 --> 01:00:26,930
Zachary, you're like a little boy.

965
01:00:27,310 --> 01:00:29,130
And you're an unfortunate little boy.

966
01:00:30,030 --> 01:00:34,970
Your father, who you'll never know, was
such an amazing.

967
01:00:35,710 --> 01:00:41,470
God. And he touched so many people in
such a short period of time. It's not

968
01:00:41,470 --> 01:00:45,690
a bunch of stories. He was a real
person. Quite frankly, don't let anybody

969
01:00:45,690 --> 01:00:47,950
to you. Wouldn't eat anything green
until he went away to college.

970
01:00:48,170 --> 01:00:50,150
Zachary is asleep in the other room.

971
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:52,410
He's spending the night.

972
01:00:53,810 --> 01:00:57,390
And you're an unfortunate little boy
because you're more than likely to grow

973
01:00:57,390 --> 01:01:01,990
without your biological father or your
biological mother.

974
01:01:03,010 --> 01:01:04,670
But with a little bit of luck.

975
01:01:05,700 --> 01:01:07,520
You'll get to grow up with Andrew's
parents.

976
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:10,240
And let me tell you this.

977
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,260
They did the most amazing job.

978
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,000
You couldn't ask for two better people.

979
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:35,760
And so from that perspective, you're the
luckiest little boy in the world. They

980
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:37,780
love you more than life itself.

981
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:40,980
And if you ever need anything, I'm not
far away.

982
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:46,740
And know that we'll be there for you in
every way that he can't be. Zach, when

983
01:01:46,740 --> 01:01:50,540
you're old enough and you watch this, if
you ever want to talk with me

984
01:01:50,540 --> 01:01:53,820
personally or you want to come and see
me, you have an open invitation and you

985
01:01:53,820 --> 01:01:54,820
should know that.

986
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,000
And you're loved, and I love you, and I
care about the person you're going to

987
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,560
become. We love him, and we do simple
things like send him books. Happy

988
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:05,880
birthday. Can't wait to meet him. I hope
to get the chance to meet you. Oh, I

989
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:10,580
hope. I'm Uncle Ken DeZachery. If you're
anything like Andrew, it's going to be

990
01:02:10,580 --> 01:02:14,500
good. I think you'll turn out just
great. If this student appears, are you

991
01:02:14,500 --> 01:02:17,940
student? Who knows? Maybe someday you'll
be applying here to the Faculty of

992
01:02:17,940 --> 01:02:18,940
Medicine.

993
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,560
We're going to do an interview. Even
though things started tragically.

994
01:02:24,090 --> 01:02:26,370
You know, he's the blessing Andrew left
behind.

995
01:02:28,530 --> 01:02:31,810
I parked the van two blocks away because
it was the only vehicle for miles with

996
01:02:31,810 --> 01:02:34,310
California plates and would give away to
Shirley that I was in town.

997
01:02:34,550 --> 01:02:35,590
Sort of a stealth van.

998
01:02:36,010 --> 01:02:39,310
Exactly. If she knew, I was afraid she
would find excuses to withhold you so

999
01:02:39,310 --> 01:02:40,310
that I couldn't see you.

1000
01:02:40,670 --> 01:02:43,290
Every time the doorbell rang, I hid in
the back bedroom as it could have been

1001
01:02:43,290 --> 01:02:46,730
her just dropping by unannounced. Hi,
David. Hi, Kate. This is Shirley. On the

1002
01:02:46,730 --> 01:02:50,130
days we didn't have you, I discovered
your dad's medical school world, met his

1003
01:02:50,130 --> 01:02:52,590
classmates, found more footage of him
for you.

1004
01:02:53,839 --> 01:02:58,820
And finally, I found myself face to face
with the thing that had set me on this

1005
01:02:58,820 --> 01:03:01,760
journey in the first place. One of the
major things that Andrew and I did

1006
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,800
together, though, or that we had in
common was photography.

1007
01:03:06,260 --> 01:03:12,180
Sometimes we'd bring the camera out and
go around the lake or the pond and take

1008
01:03:12,180 --> 01:03:14,780
some pictures around there. I told
Andrew, I said, listen, you're going to

1009
01:03:14,780 --> 01:03:18,420
to, like, show me a few tricks or
whatever and show me some of your

1010
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,500
And I'd still love to see some of the
pictures that he took through medical

1011
01:03:21,500 --> 01:03:23,140
school. I've never seen any of them.

1012
01:03:44,190 --> 01:03:46,510
Him and his dad had done quite a bit of
photography together.

1013
01:03:46,890 --> 01:03:51,190
Right after this happened, I fired out
an email saying we should try to think

1014
01:03:51,190 --> 01:03:52,750
some sort of memorial award.

1015
01:03:53,250 --> 01:03:57,250
And I felt like that would be something
also that his dad would really feel

1016
01:03:57,250 --> 01:04:01,730
honored by. And then have a wall in the
medical school to be able to say, you

1017
01:04:01,730 --> 01:04:04,530
know, year after year, you know, these
are the winners. And people could sit

1018
01:04:04,530 --> 01:04:07,450
there and look and be like, wow, you
know, look at this. I think I have a

1019
01:04:07,450 --> 01:04:09,970
meeting tomorrow morning to participate
in the judging tomorrow.

1020
01:04:10,270 --> 01:04:14,970
I find it interesting that you say that
you hadn't heard that. I wonder if part

1021
01:04:14,970 --> 01:04:18,730
of it was eventually maybe having Dad
independently say, oh, who took this

1022
01:04:18,730 --> 01:04:22,090
picture? It's a really nice picture, and
have him say, oh, me.

1023
01:04:22,430 --> 01:04:23,430
I don't know.

1024
01:04:23,850 --> 01:04:25,110
But it's something he did.

1025
01:04:26,790 --> 01:04:29,010
On July 18, 2003...

1026
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:33,380
You turned one. I do have a complaint,
finally. Oh. He is too happy, Kathleen.

1027
01:04:33,500 --> 01:04:37,420
Okay. Shirley decided to hold a birthday
party for you at McDonald's. She

1028
01:04:37,420 --> 01:04:41,180
started to open presents. Well, he
wasn't interested in presents. He wanted

1029
01:04:41,180 --> 01:04:41,859
get down.

1030
01:04:41,860 --> 01:04:45,460
So when he got down, he made for me.

1031
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:49,680
Shirley was very, very angry. So she...

1032
01:04:50,090 --> 01:04:52,690
He said he loved you more than he wanted
to take him. Sometimes you don't

1033
01:04:52,690 --> 01:04:54,990
realize what you're saying. I think it
was one time we were on the phone or

1034
01:04:54,990 --> 01:04:59,250
something. Yeah, the baby cried. Yeah,
all my babies. Yeah, I mean, I can watch

1035
01:04:59,250 --> 01:05:00,250
that for sure.

1036
01:05:00,570 --> 01:05:02,770
You weren't trying to take my place.

1037
01:05:03,010 --> 01:05:08,830
Zachary always, from the time he could
choose, would choose Kate over her.

1038
01:05:09,030 --> 01:05:14,910
That was obvious, and other people
talked about it. Kate is a warm and

1039
01:05:14,910 --> 01:05:18,690
mother. She was a phony mother. I love
you.

1040
01:05:19,630 --> 01:05:20,630
Mommy loves you.

1041
01:05:20,950 --> 01:05:21,888
Yes, I do.

1042
01:05:21,890 --> 01:05:25,550
She knew the motions, but there's no
warmth in it. Zachary, I love you, baby.

1043
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:27,150
Mommy loves you.

1044
01:05:27,370 --> 01:05:30,270
Mommy loves you. She said that she had
kids and that she wasn't interested in

1045
01:05:30,270 --> 01:05:32,870
living with them either. Interested, she
kind of went off to medical school and

1046
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:35,870
left them. And she said that they lived
with their fathers, and she said that

1047
01:05:35,870 --> 01:05:38,890
children were more trouble than they
were worth. I believe she's using her

1048
01:05:38,890 --> 01:05:44,790
children now to manipulate the system
and to make Kate and David suffer, even

1049
01:05:44,790 --> 01:05:45,790
she goes to jail.

1050
01:05:46,230 --> 01:05:48,610
Fortunately, there are enough people
here who are in the...

1051
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,460
In the system, the justice system, the
child protection system, that I know

1052
01:05:53,460 --> 01:05:57,460
personally who have told me that that
will not happen.

1053
01:05:57,860 --> 01:06:01,780
The next hearing in the extradition
process was set for September 25th, your

1054
01:06:01,780 --> 01:06:05,580
dad's 30th birthday, where she would
likely be reincarcerated and at last

1055
01:06:05,580 --> 01:06:06,880
returned to the U .S. for trial.

1056
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,700
But for now, it was time for me to go
home. I have to say bye -bye now.

1057
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:13,940
Can I say bye -bye? Bye -bye to Uncle
Kurt.

1058
01:06:14,180 --> 01:06:15,180
Can I give him a hug?

1059
01:06:15,460 --> 01:06:16,460
Can I give him a hug?

1060
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:17,740
Grab him and take it.

1061
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:22,360
Is that funny? Is that funny?

1062
01:06:22,580 --> 01:06:23,580
Bye -bye, sweetie.

1063
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:24,840
Bye -bye, sweetie.

1064
01:06:24,980 --> 01:06:25,980
I'll see you later, buddy.

1065
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,800
Oh, you'll be a little bigger next time
I see you. He had just completed the

1066
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,420
child health check that they do.

1067
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,580
He's ahead of his time. He's doing
great. He's up to par on everything.

1068
01:06:34,940 --> 01:06:37,220
But he doesn't like to wave goodbye.

1069
01:06:37,580 --> 01:06:38,558
Bye -bye.

1070
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:39,299
Bye -bye.

1071
01:06:39,300 --> 01:06:43,260
Bye -bye. One of them said, that's fine,
because, you know, he's got lots of

1072
01:06:43,260 --> 01:06:45,460
time to learn that. Is there anything
you'd like to say to Zachary?

1073
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:48,540
I'm hoping that I'm going to have all
the opportunity to say those things to

1074
01:06:48,540 --> 01:06:49,540
Zachary.

1075
01:06:52,940 --> 01:06:58,200
We had been out, we came back here,
there was a little card in the door from

1076
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:02,540
Constable Walsh saying that would we
contact him. I was here.

1077
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:07,200
Mark and I were here. I was at my house.
I was home watching the 6 o 'clock MTV

1078
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,920
news and the next thing I saw a picture
of Shirley and Zachary and saying that

1079
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,480
they were missing and I was...

1080
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,520
I was screaming at the top of my lungs.
And I immediately fell to the floor. I

1081
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:22,140
immediately went over to her apartment.
We came here. We just left and got in

1082
01:07:22,140 --> 01:07:23,140
her and went over there.

1083
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,020
I'll never forget that moment. They're
going to find them. They're going to be

1084
01:07:26,020 --> 01:07:29,000
okay. You're overreacting. You're going
to think the worst. You know, she'd

1085
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,240
probably gone for a night. My first
thought was that she had left. She had

1086
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,220
him and run. She couldn't do that. She
couldn't possibly do that. That was

1087
01:07:35,220 --> 01:07:36,640
two or three hours of uncertainty.

1088
01:07:37,020 --> 01:07:38,360
Emotion was overwhelming.

1089
01:07:38,620 --> 01:07:42,320
I know you wouldn't be worried. We
disappeared for a couple of days or

1090
01:07:42,460 --> 01:07:45,000
right? They called us and told us that
they were dead. doing a search of the

1091
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:47,840
beach out in Conception Bay South. I
thought they were doing that for a

1092
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,940
I had received a call. They were having
a press conference on the Turner case. I

1093
01:07:51,940 --> 01:07:55,260
went to Father Chris. I just whispered
to him, I think you better stay because

1094
01:07:55,260 --> 01:07:57,600
think I'm going to be coming back here
with some really bad news.

1095
01:07:57,820 --> 01:07:59,400
He told me that they had found a baby.

1096
01:08:01,580 --> 01:08:04,520
Along with an adult. I knew then that
there was two bodies. They're working to

1097
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:05,660
identify the bodies.

1098
01:08:06,420 --> 01:08:11,580
We came to the door, and it was Jackie
and Councilman Walsh. And I think, oh my

1099
01:08:11,580 --> 01:08:12,580
gosh, somebody's...

1100
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,400
Whit then now tried to tell me. He went
in and I told him.

1101
01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:21,160
And what I saw after that I will never
forget in my life.

1102
01:08:28,700 --> 01:08:32,279
Ray. Absolutely vicious, Ray. Someone
has done that to someone you love. If

1103
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:35,580
person who did this had been here, I'd
kill him. I was trying to do this as a

1104
01:08:35,580 --> 01:08:38,740
surprise for you and David and... Fury,
no quest to kill him. Strangle that

1105
01:08:38,740 --> 01:08:41,319
fucking bitch right here, right now.
Fury, no quest to kill him.

1106
01:08:50,350 --> 01:08:55,330
And then we went to have to identify
him, and we couldn't touch him because

1107
01:08:55,330 --> 01:08:56,330
said he was forensic.

1108
01:08:56,830 --> 01:08:59,069
He hadn't been through the autopsy yet.

1109
01:08:59,330 --> 01:09:04,510
There's this table and sort of white
sheets up all around him. A white sheet

1110
01:09:04,510 --> 01:09:08,490
over a body. You could see over the
sheets. Clearly it was his. It was him.

1111
01:09:08,490 --> 01:09:09,490
really him.

1112
01:09:12,990 --> 01:09:15,189
And then Kate's legs quit.

1113
01:09:15,410 --> 01:09:16,990
She just went straight to the floor.

1114
01:09:17,210 --> 01:09:18,210
David was...

1115
01:09:18,410 --> 01:09:21,850
lying on top of Kate on the floor. We
managed to get him out. I don't know how

1116
01:09:21,850 --> 01:09:22,850
we did it, Kurt.

1117
01:09:23,130 --> 01:09:24,670
I don't know how I got out myself.

1118
01:09:26,750 --> 01:09:28,029
That poor little baby.

1119
01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:32,729
A summary of the evidence against
Shirley Turner.

1120
01:09:32,990 --> 01:09:38,370
Part 2. In July of 2003, Shirley met a
man at a bar in downtown St. John's.

1121
01:09:38,370 --> 01:09:41,310
went out twice until his friends showed
him articles on the web saying she was

1122
01:09:41,310 --> 01:09:42,750
accused of killing her last boyfriend.

1123
01:09:43,050 --> 01:09:44,649
He told her he didn't want to see her
anymore.

1124
01:09:45,149 --> 01:09:48,590
She then called and left over 200
messages on his phone, including one

1125
01:09:48,590 --> 01:09:51,670
that she was pregnant and that he needed
to step up to the plate and be a

1126
01:09:51,670 --> 01:09:52,670
fucking man.

1127
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:54,160
He wasn't, as her autopsy showed.

1128
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,460
The night she killed you, she made a
phony phone call from her apartment to a

1129
01:09:57,460 --> 01:10:00,340
friend's answering machine, claiming to
be at this man's house with you.

1130
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:04,440
She took your brother TJ's car at about
11 .38 that night and drove to the man's

1131
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:07,900
house. She got lost along the way and
asked a woman for directions along this

1132
01:10:07,900 --> 01:10:11,980
road around 12 .45 a .m. She parked
behind his house, left a used tampon and

1133
01:10:11,980 --> 01:10:15,060
photos of the two of you on his
property, completing her attempt to

1134
01:10:15,060 --> 01:10:18,320
man for what she was about to do, then
took you down to the ocean behind his

1135
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,370
home. A night watchman in the area
thought he heard a baby crying in the

1136
01:10:21,370 --> 01:10:25,090
distance around 2 .30 a .m. Shirley took
her prescription for Ativan, prescribed

1137
01:10:25,090 --> 01:10:28,710
for her by psychiatrist John Doucette,
mixed it into your formula, then took

1138
01:10:28,710 --> 01:10:29,409
some herself.

1139
01:10:29,410 --> 01:10:32,490
The only good thing we know about this
is that you were not conscious and you

1140
01:10:32,490 --> 01:10:33,249
did not suffer.

1141
01:10:33,250 --> 01:10:37,730
She then walked to the edge of a pier,
and with you strapped to her stomach

1142
01:10:37,730 --> 01:10:39,770
a sweater, she jumped into the Atlantic
Ocean.

1143
01:10:42,250 --> 01:10:43,250
Mommy loves you.

1144
01:10:44,370 --> 01:10:45,369
Yes, I do.

1145
01:10:45,370 --> 01:10:46,370
Mommy loves you.

1146
01:10:46,610 --> 01:10:47,650
Did you have a nice nap?

1147
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:50,480
What did you dream about? Mummy loves
you.

1148
01:10:51,180 --> 01:10:52,460
Mummy misses you.

1149
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:04,440
He was found face upwards with his eyes
wide open and the policeman who found

1150
01:11:04,440 --> 01:11:10,600
him said that he had wrapped him in a
blanket rather than a plastic bag and he

1151
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,320
and another officer carried him gently
back.

1152
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:17,940
And he made very sure that he kept the
body very far away from the wicked woman

1153
01:11:17,940 --> 01:11:18,940
who had murdered him.

1154
01:11:22,500 --> 01:11:29,260
When we came here, David and I realized
what Shirley Turner

1155
01:11:29,260 --> 01:11:31,000
was. She was the devil.

1156
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:36,380
But people think that you're some kind
of basic religious nut if you believe in

1157
01:11:36,380 --> 01:11:40,180
the devil. I haven't prayed since
Zachary died. I have some issues I have

1158
01:11:40,180 --> 01:11:40,759
deal with.

1159
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:42,780
My faith has been tested by this.

1160
01:11:45,350 --> 01:11:46,350
Beautiful service.

1161
01:11:47,390 --> 01:11:49,070
A real tribute to the little boy.

1162
01:11:49,330 --> 01:11:52,530
Oh, I don't know how many people were
here. Probably 300 or 400 people, maybe

1163
01:11:52,530 --> 01:11:53,530
more. I don't recall.

1164
01:11:53,910 --> 01:11:56,670
I've never seen a coffin so small
before.

1165
01:12:00,390 --> 01:12:02,070
He shouldn't have them that size.

1166
01:12:04,190 --> 01:12:08,430
He was in his little suit that he had
the pictures taken in, I think.

1167
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:12,770
What went in it? What went in it? His
little ball and...

1168
01:12:13,480 --> 01:12:15,240
I don't remember if she put a truck in.

1169
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,520
Lots of kisses and hugs and tears went
in it.

1170
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:26,400
Lots of hopes and dreams.

1171
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,940
Your grandma and grandpa went back to
England and spread your ashes with your

1172
01:12:35,940 --> 01:12:41,100
dad's. They went back to St. Louis and
spread your ashes with your dad's. I

1173
01:12:41,100 --> 01:12:42,240
didn't go with him.

1174
01:12:43,290 --> 01:12:45,530
Andrew wanted to be cremated. Oh, yes.

1175
01:12:45,770 --> 01:12:50,230
Yes. What bothers Kate is that she did
not go with him to the crematorium and

1176
01:12:50,230 --> 01:12:54,050
stay with him right to the end. He went
from the funeral home to the crematorium

1177
01:12:54,050 --> 01:12:55,050
all alone.

1178
01:12:55,390 --> 01:12:56,930
In plastic bags.

1179
01:12:59,710 --> 01:13:01,770
With only his head sticking out.

1180
01:13:04,510 --> 01:13:05,510
Come on, Kate.

1181
01:13:15,340 --> 01:13:18,780
That's why we went right up to the oven
doors with Zachary.

1182
01:13:28,100 --> 01:13:30,640
This is what that fucking bitch didn't
know.

1183
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,060
Or maybe she did know. This is what
she's leaving.

1184
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:40,740
Maybe she did know.

1185
01:13:42,190 --> 01:13:44,830
If she thought about it at all, she
didn't give a good goddamn.

1186
01:13:48,110 --> 01:13:49,710
And this is what I hate her for.

1187
01:13:52,090 --> 01:13:53,470
I hate her for a lot of things.

1188
01:13:54,450 --> 01:13:58,170
Stealing the rest of Andrew's life and
virtually all of Zachary's life and then

1189
01:13:58,170 --> 01:13:59,170
it.

1190
01:13:59,930 --> 01:14:01,190
Leaving us like this.

1191
01:14:04,050 --> 01:14:10,150
A couple of times when I ain't in there
in bed at night, I consider fixing the

1192
01:14:10,150 --> 01:14:11,150
problem myself.

1193
01:14:11,420 --> 01:14:15,320
Pick a night when Kate took a sleeping
pill so she wouldn't know I was up.

1194
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:21,180
Get up in the middle of the night, dream
up a pretext, go kill Shirley and come

1195
01:14:21,180 --> 01:14:23,340
back and go back to bed so Kate would
not know.

1196
01:14:24,260 --> 01:14:27,720
That way, number one, she could not harm
Zachary.

1197
01:14:28,660 --> 01:14:33,280
And number two, even if they did catch
me at it, I'm the first one they come

1198
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:37,040
looking for, of course. But Kate could
truthfully say she didn't know that I

1199
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:40,580
doing it, so she might still get to
bring up Zachary.

1200
01:14:40,890 --> 01:14:44,110
get him started even if i go to go to
prison again we've worked through

1201
01:14:44,110 --> 01:14:49,970
possibilities of nauseam suppose we grab
zachary and run number one we got to

1202
01:14:49,970 --> 01:14:53,910
get off the island into the land the big
uh drawback against living here is

1203
01:14:53,910 --> 01:14:58,150
getting out of here there's only three
ways to do that ferry boat airplane the

1204
01:14:58,150 --> 01:15:03,480
airplane and the ferry would be covered
as soon as zachary smith we have to Hire

1205
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:06,860
a boat somehow, which means you've taken
a third party to the crime of

1206
01:15:06,860 --> 01:15:11,900
kidnapping. We can't go home. We cannot
ever identify ourselves as ourselves.

1207
01:15:12,140 --> 01:15:16,640
We have cash only stashed all around the
country. Zachary would never be allowed

1208
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:18,980
to know his family, our friends.

1209
01:15:19,220 --> 01:15:25,620
So that path, big, big, big, big risk
with a horrible life. So that's out.

1210
01:15:25,620 --> 01:15:28,020
approaches we might have taken. Invent
something.

1211
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,520
File affidavits saying, you know, surely
he slipped one night.

1212
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,680
And we were around and fed a threat of
some kind that might get her

1213
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:41,240
incarcerated. But that would just be our
word against hers. The best shot we had

1214
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:45,980
at keeping Zachary alive was I killed
her myself.

1215
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:52,000
Other than doing that, I can think of no
other way to save Zachary from that

1216
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,000
bitch.

1217
01:15:59,570 --> 01:16:00,590
There's a logic in it.

1218
01:16:01,470 --> 01:16:06,270
But I didn't do it because I trusted
government to do its job. Government is

1219
01:16:06,270 --> 01:16:09,650
supposed to stop that, so I don't have
to do it personally. In this case, they

1220
01:16:09,650 --> 01:16:12,310
didn't even get her off the street, and
they even gave her a baby to look after.

1221
01:16:12,370 --> 01:16:16,190
My understanding is that proper
protocols were followed. I have asked my

1222
01:16:16,190 --> 01:16:21,250
officials to, did ask them some time
ago, to follow up with the board to see,

1223
01:16:21,250 --> 01:16:25,310
fact, that everything, all the proper
protocols I'd been adhered to. They were

1224
01:16:25,310 --> 01:16:29,820
gambling. zachary's life they were
gambling the lives of anyone in the

1225
01:16:29,820 --> 01:16:34,840
population that shirley came in contact
with we the the vast majority of good

1226
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:39,280
people who don't kill people are stuck
we got nowhere to go we figured we'd

1227
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:44,720
a press conference and try to push for
changes in law so the morning that we

1228
01:16:44,720 --> 01:16:48,400
scheduled the press conference i was in
the shower and they came in with the

1229
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:52,280
phone it's jackie he says we can't hold
the press conference technically there's

1230
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:53,280
still a press

1231
01:16:53,900 --> 01:16:58,780
ban in place and said, fuck them, fuck
them. If they're going to lock me up for

1232
01:16:58,780 --> 01:17:00,840
talking while the murderers walk around
free.

1233
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:07,040
We believe that Charlie Turner bears 100
% of the responsibility for the murder

1234
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:08,040
of our son, Andrew.

1235
01:17:08,250 --> 01:17:13,050
We believe that the legal system helped
her to kill our grandson, Zachary. When

1236
01:17:13,050 --> 01:17:17,090
Shirley Turner was formally charged and
escaped to Canada, we naively thought

1237
01:17:17,090 --> 01:17:21,390
she would be sent back to Pennsylvania
within a few weeks at the most. When we

1238
01:17:21,390 --> 01:17:25,490
learned that she was out on bail under
an order from Justice David Russell, we

1239
01:17:25,490 --> 01:17:26,490
were numb.

1240
01:17:27,340 --> 01:17:31,400
Good afternoon, Judge Russell's office.
I'm a documentary filmmaker. I'm doing a

1241
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,860
documentary about the Zachary Turner
case. I think all he might have done one

1242
01:17:34,860 --> 01:17:38,340
time was probably a bail review. Is that
what you're calling it? Yeah, it was

1243
01:17:38,340 --> 01:17:40,180
December 12, 2001, actually. Okay.

1244
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:44,120
Judge Russell is sorry, but he won't be
able to be interviewed in connection

1245
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:47,480
with that matter. Crown Prosecutor Mike
Madden didn't even argue against her

1246
01:17:47,480 --> 01:17:50,360
release on bail that day and instead
entered the courtroom with an agreement

1247
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:51,660
already in place for her release.

1248
01:17:51,900 --> 01:17:55,220
Mike Madden speaking. I'm a documentary
filmmaker. I was a friend of Andrew

1249
01:17:55,220 --> 01:17:59,400
Bagby. Yes. Wondering if you would be
interested in possibly being interviewed

1250
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:02,980
for... No, I don't think so. Not one
penny of her bail sureties had to be

1251
01:18:02,980 --> 01:18:05,940
by anyone who signed, nor did they have
to show proof of ability to pay.

1252
01:18:06,140 --> 01:18:09,240
No money's put up. No money at all. It's
useless. Yeah, they could have put 20

1253
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:10,240
cents or 20 million...

1254
01:18:35,799 --> 01:18:39,120
Our lawyer, Jackie, went to see Betty
Day.

1255
01:18:39,610 --> 01:18:43,390
An administrator is somewhere in the
hierarchy of child protective services

1256
01:18:43,390 --> 01:18:49,590
told her that we are concerned about the
safety of the baby because the mother

1257
01:18:49,590 --> 01:18:51,570
is accused of a premeditated murder.

1258
01:18:51,770 --> 01:18:54,890
And nothing happened.

1259
01:18:55,130 --> 01:18:56,570
Hello, Department of Health and
Community Services.

1260
01:18:56,870 --> 01:19:02,250
Hi, I'm trying to reach Elizabeth Day.
Elizabeth Day is not available at the

1261
01:19:02,250 --> 01:19:04,070
tone. Please record your message.

1262
01:19:04,700 --> 01:19:05,700
My call was not returned.

1263
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:09,920
If you were in the family health
services, wouldn't you want to know who

1264
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:13,720
accused murderer was arranging for her
baby to stay with? Nobody ever came to

1265
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:16,980
see us. And before we left Sunnyvale, we
got a police report saying that we were

1266
01:19:16,980 --> 01:19:21,900
good people. Our friends and my
employer, et cetera, write letters that

1267
01:19:21,900 --> 01:19:23,420
upright members of the community.

1268
01:19:23,900 --> 01:19:27,720
Nobody asked us for that. We could have
been convicted of child molesters in

1269
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:28,720
California.

1270
01:19:28,970 --> 01:19:32,310
I didn't care. Nobody would have known.
She wrote directly to Judge Derek Green,

1271
01:19:32,390 --> 01:19:35,390
who responded through his secretary with
instructions on how to write her own

1272
01:19:35,390 --> 01:19:39,010
appeal of his decision to incarcerate
her. Mr. Kenney? Yes? Yeah, this is

1273
01:19:39,010 --> 01:19:39,789
Justice Green.

1274
01:19:39,790 --> 01:19:43,770
What I did is, on the record, speak for
itself.

1275
01:19:43,990 --> 01:19:49,190
Okay, okay. Under an order from Justice
Gail Welsh, Shirley Turner was released

1276
01:19:49,190 --> 01:19:52,750
on bail again, and we went numb again.

1277
01:19:53,690 --> 01:19:57,470
and we had to give Zachary right back
into the hands of Andrew's killer. There

1278
01:19:57,470 --> 01:20:00,430
is no indication of a psychological
disorder that would give concern about

1279
01:20:00,430 --> 01:20:03,770
potential harm to the public generally.
Shirley's last boyfriend before Andrew

1280
01:20:03,770 --> 01:20:07,070
told Pennsylvania police that Shirley
attempted suicide on his front doorstep

1281
01:20:07,070 --> 01:20:09,590
after he broke up with her and had
threatened to kill him. There is no

1282
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:12,630
indication of a psychological disorder
that would give concern about potential

1283
01:20:12,630 --> 01:20:15,710
harm to the public generally. Eight
people had restraining orders against

1284
01:20:15,750 --> 01:20:18,790
There is no indication of a
psychological disorder that would give

1285
01:20:18,790 --> 01:20:21,770
potential harm to the public generally.
If anyone had bothered to check the jail

1286
01:20:21,770 --> 01:20:24,830
records during her two -month... stay
the prison psychiatrist put her on

1287
01:20:24,830 --> 01:20:28,230
watch every 15 minutes she was
incredibly disruptive and even

1288
01:20:28,230 --> 01:20:31,210
another inmate with a fork there is no
indication of a psychological disorder

1289
01:20:31,210 --> 01:20:34,290
that would give concern about potential
harm to the public generally as her

1290
01:20:34,290 --> 01:20:38,190
crime while violent was specific in
nature the man she was terrorizing

1291
01:20:38,190 --> 01:20:41,230
the police and reported surely but
because he didn't leave his name no one

1292
01:20:41,230 --> 01:20:45,570
any action as her crime while violent
was specific in nature andrew rejected

1293
01:20:45,570 --> 01:20:47,650
and building zachary rejected her

1294
01:20:48,700 --> 01:20:52,740
Her crime, while violent, was specific
in nature. Of course the crime was

1295
01:20:52,740 --> 01:20:56,940
specific. She didn't shoot into a crowd
of people. We could not conceive how

1296
01:20:56,940 --> 01:20:59,740
they could let a probable premeditated
murderer.

1297
01:21:00,940 --> 01:21:02,740
Probable premeditated murderer.

1298
01:21:03,390 --> 01:21:06,850
Walk the street. Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary in the public interest.

1299
01:21:07,050 --> 01:21:10,330
Who the hell is the system protecting?
Dr. Turner's detention is not necessary

1300
01:21:10,330 --> 01:21:14,230
in the public interest. We waited and we
waited and we waited for the

1301
01:21:14,230 --> 01:21:19,610
authorities to do their job and lock her
up. We've got a dead body with five

1302
01:21:19,610 --> 01:21:20,568
holes in it.

1303
01:21:20,570 --> 01:21:23,730
It means nothing. Under an order from
Justice Gail Welsh.

1304
01:21:24,070 --> 01:21:26,630
Good afternoon, Court of Appeal. I must
speak to Judge Welsh, please.

1305
01:21:26,850 --> 01:21:30,190
Is she expecting your call? Uh, probably
not, no. And now we've got a second

1306
01:21:30,190 --> 01:21:33,310
dead body that couldn't breathe through
water. I just spoke with Judge Welsh and

1307
01:21:33,310 --> 01:21:36,130
he said no. He said no, so I just want
to let you know. Dr. Turner's detention

1308
01:21:36,130 --> 01:21:37,950
is not necessary in the public interest.

1309
01:21:40,550 --> 01:21:41,550
Oh!

1310
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,460
She had to be stopped. The people who
were supposed to stop her didn't.

1311
01:21:59,860 --> 01:22:01,100
And she got to kill again.

1312
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:06,100
And I'm going to do my damnedest to see
if I can make them change the way they

1313
01:22:06,100 --> 01:22:07,740
deal with killers.

1314
01:22:08,060 --> 01:22:10,880
And with that, your grandma and grandpa
became activists.

1315
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:12,200
We want,

1316
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:18,940
number one, the whole true public about
why Zachary died. They've developed a

1317
01:22:18,940 --> 01:22:21,960
program, a support group for people who
have had...

1318
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:24,960
Death true, you know violent death In

1319
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:31,940
this last year, I've just taken training
to become a

1320
01:22:31,940 --> 01:22:37,140
child advocate in the dependency court
John Doucette the psychiatrist who

1321
01:22:37,140 --> 01:22:42,700
$65 ,000 bail for Miss Turner was found
guilty of professional misconduct. It

1322
01:22:42,700 --> 01:22:46,460
was David Bagby and his wife who
launched the complaint against Doucette.

1323
01:22:46,460 --> 01:22:50,120
three -person panel ordered Doucette to
undergo psychiatric counseling.

1324
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:54,200
There was a lot of sympathy for David
and Kate. I think it got them at least a

1325
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:56,140
result that they were hoping to
accomplish.

1326
01:22:56,520 --> 01:23:00,120
Mr. Wicks, child and youth advocate for
Newfoundland and Labrador, is doing a

1327
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:04,800
child death review, which is a formal
investigation, and the output of it is a

1328
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:09,240
report saying, here's why that baby
died, and recommendations for changes.

1329
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:12,500
to cut the chance of that happening in
the future, obviously.

1330
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:17,780
Once that's done, then we would like to
see that go to whatever legislative

1331
01:23:17,780 --> 01:23:22,560
bodies, either provincial or federal,
can write laws to make these

1332
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:23,720
recommendations real.

1333
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:30,980
And a report into the death of Zachary
Turner will be released in Newfoundland.

1334
01:23:31,180 --> 01:23:34,820
He was drowned by his mother. Your
grandma was temporarily injured in a

1335
01:23:34,820 --> 01:23:35,820
couldn't make the trip.

1336
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:37,520
So your grandpa and I came alone.

1337
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:42,300
Dr. Marcus Stein conducted an exhaustive
investigation over a 15 -month period.

1338
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:44,320
He reached two key conclusions.

1339
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:49,580
One, Zachary Turner's death was
preventable. And two, Zachary was in his

1340
01:23:49,580 --> 01:23:52,740
mother's care when he should not have
been. The government has received a

1341
01:23:52,740 --> 01:23:57,000
scathing report that concluded the child
protection system... failed Zachary

1342
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:01,660
Turner. A serious lack of judgment at
the senior management level substandard

1343
01:24:01,660 --> 01:24:05,080
child protection practices contributed
to the outcome. There are 58

1344
01:24:05,080 --> 01:24:09,060
recommendations in the report. I am
announcing our action plan. We will

1345
01:24:09,060 --> 01:24:13,380
policy specific to children whose
parents are charged with a violent

1346
01:24:13,380 --> 01:24:16,640
part I was most interested in, as I
said, is bail.

1347
01:24:16,860 --> 01:24:17,699
Why was Dr.

1348
01:24:17,700 --> 01:24:21,700
Shirley Turner granted judicial interim
release, commonly known as bail?

1349
01:24:22,590 --> 01:24:26,790
This is the one question that Dr. Marcus
Stein did not and could not answer. So

1350
01:24:26,790 --> 01:24:30,410
that's still an open wound, if you
would. May I? He did say that had Dr.

1351
01:24:30,690 --> 01:24:34,350
Turner not been released on bail on 12
December 2001...

1352
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:39,580
or on 10 January 2003, my review would
have been unnecessary.

1353
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:41,940
Zachary would be alive today.

1354
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:46,640
I would like to see Parliament pass a
law denying bail to the people accused

1355
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:50,220
murder. Put them on the fast track to
get to trial and get on with it, get to

1356
01:24:50,220 --> 01:24:53,560
the truth. And the only way I can see it
changing is for every citizen who cares

1357
01:24:53,560 --> 01:24:57,680
about this to tell his MP that this law
is stupid, change it. And of course,

1358
01:24:57,700 --> 01:25:01,940
such a selfish thing to do. She not only
killed Andrew, but she left three other

1359
01:25:01,940 --> 01:25:06,020
children without a mother, which is
very... sad for them. And what kind of

1360
01:25:06,020 --> 01:25:07,200
regret does that give you?

1361
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:12,520
Well, if things were different, I guess
it's possible he'd still be alive. And

1362
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:18,820
rather than memories of just one year,
it'd be a lot of years there now. Tough

1363
01:25:18,820 --> 01:25:20,860
losing a little brother. Yeah,
definitely.

1364
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:22,820
Zachary should be right here with me.

1365
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:26,300
He should be off going to school now and
getting ready to go to school. I'm

1366
01:25:26,300 --> 01:25:31,960
going to continue to scream long and
loud about bail for someone accused of.

1367
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:33,860
what Shirley did to my son.

1368
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:48,660
I traveled the world for years looking
for what was left of your dad.

1369
01:25:49,260 --> 01:25:50,720
I'd made dozens of new friends.

1370
01:25:52,100 --> 01:25:55,200
But there was still one question I
couldn't answer.

1371
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:57,200
How would I know when I was done?

1372
01:25:58,060 --> 01:26:02,020
And what was I really looking for? Both
as spirituality and as grief.

1373
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:05,440
The relocation of the other person is
essential.

1374
01:26:05,780 --> 01:26:08,680
It's interesting you should ask that. My
first response was, that's not a

1375
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:15,240
person. That is simply a mass of tissue
and protein and fat and water. Something

1376
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:17,600
leaves the body when death occurs.

1377
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:18,880
What was I trying to find?

1378
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:21,340
To resolve our grief, we have to be able
to...

1379
01:26:21,690 --> 01:26:25,830
accept the reality of that loss who's
interviewing you kurt get our questions

1380
01:26:25,830 --> 01:26:31,050
answered to the extent that they can be
and to basically surrender to the things

1381
01:26:31,050 --> 01:26:35,150
that we can't have answered and how
would i know what i'd found it i

1382
01:26:35,150 --> 01:26:39,490
you doing this part because i know he
talked about you a lot you talk about

1383
01:26:39,490 --> 01:26:44,470
well then you're not a good movie maker

1384
01:26:48,110 --> 01:26:52,050
Because that's what he always told me. I
know he loved you. And then to be able

1385
01:26:52,050 --> 01:26:57,510
to continue to live remembering the
person, to be able to remember their

1386
01:26:57,530 --> 01:26:58,970
not only their death.

1387
01:26:59,210 --> 01:27:01,250
I know. I can feel it. It's not far off.

1388
01:27:01,710 --> 01:27:02,710
It's too late.

1389
01:27:03,070 --> 01:27:04,950
I didn't want to stop making this movie.

1390
01:27:05,310 --> 01:27:09,050
That would mean I'd learned everything
there was to know and finish my one last

1391
01:27:09,050 --> 01:27:14,250
movie with him. Earl Grohlman again
says, grief is love's unwillingness to

1392
01:27:14,250 --> 01:27:15,750
go. He doesn't like to wave goodbye.

1393
01:27:25,099 --> 01:27:30,740
One more time. And action. It is my
brother that got married here tonight.

1394
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:37,260
One more time. And action. One more
time. And action.

1395
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:45,100
When a person says life will never be
the same again, will it?

1396
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:50,900
They now know where they are and what's
involved in moving forward.

1397
01:27:51,390 --> 01:27:53,310
There were so many stories I wanted to
tell you.

1398
01:27:54,450 --> 01:27:55,930
And somewhere I hope you're watching.

1399
01:27:57,350 --> 01:27:59,530
I almost gave up making this film when
you were killed.

1400
01:28:00,410 --> 01:28:01,690
I couldn't see the point anymore.

1401
01:28:02,930 --> 01:28:04,270
But something kept me going.

1402
01:28:05,270 --> 01:28:07,030
And then one day I realized what it was.

1403
01:28:08,750 --> 01:28:10,610
This film was no longer a letter to you.

1404
01:28:12,030 --> 01:28:16,450
It was now a letter to someone else. We
thought we'd go get Andrew and get

1405
01:28:16,450 --> 01:28:18,230
everything organized, whatever, and then
kill ourselves.

1406
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:22,080
No point going on. Everybody always
says, well, what would be the difference

1407
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:23,380
one person weren't alive?

1408
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:27,760
You've still got a hell of a lot to live
for, and you've still got a lot of

1409
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:33,200
friends and a lot of family who love you
very, very much. You are the most

1410
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:37,740
amazing and the strongest people I've
ever known.

1411
01:28:37,980 --> 01:28:41,740
I love you guys. I love them very much.
I love them very much. I love them very

1412
01:28:41,740 --> 01:28:43,280
much. And how am I going to do this
without?

1413
01:28:43,910 --> 01:28:47,990
I admire you and respect you so much for
two things. One, for such a wonderful

1414
01:28:47,990 --> 01:28:50,930
young man that you raised. It doesn't
matter what happened. They raised a

1415
01:28:50,930 --> 01:28:51,929
wonderful man.

1416
01:28:51,930 --> 01:28:54,490
Thanks for bringing such a wonderful
person into the world. You know, Andrew

1417
01:28:54,490 --> 01:28:59,650
contributed a lot to me as far as who I
am today. We won't forget this one. And

1418
01:28:59,650 --> 01:29:03,070
for having the strength to make it
through something like this. With what

1419
01:29:03,070 --> 01:29:08,470
been through, to still be carrying on,
still to hold your heads up and keep

1420
01:29:08,470 --> 01:29:11,070
going and pushing forward is...

1421
01:29:12,059 --> 01:29:15,040
Amazing. They've done it in such a way
that it makes you proud to know them and

1422
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:18,740
to be related to them. I think God put
some people down on earth just to be

1423
01:29:18,740 --> 01:29:23,040
examples for the rest of us. You are two
very, very special people.

1424
01:29:23,300 --> 01:29:26,460
There's few things in my life that have
had an effect on me like those two

1425
01:29:26,460 --> 01:29:30,380
people. I don't know how else. I love
them. We love you. Oh, we love them.

1426
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:35,100
And I think about them daily. My
thoughts are never far from either of

1427
01:29:35,100 --> 01:29:36,860
love them and pray for them. God's
blessings.

1428
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:41,140
On the boat. Oh, they know. I love them.
I feel very blessed, as I say, to be

1429
01:29:41,140 --> 01:29:45,180
among their friends. Well, I just thank
them for being my friends for 30 -odd

1430
01:29:45,180 --> 01:29:49,420
years. We're very lucky to have them as
our neighbors and our true friends. God

1431
01:29:49,420 --> 01:29:50,860
bless you guys and call me.

1432
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:57,160
And one of Andrew's very good friends
told us very soon after he was murdered,

1433
01:29:57,260 --> 01:29:58,260
we still had children.

1434
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:01,760
Kurt, Matt, Chris.

1435
01:30:02,780 --> 01:30:06,140
on down the list i feel like i got lucky
in life because they're another set of

1436
01:30:06,140 --> 01:30:11,140
parents kate and david were a big reason
why i am the person that i am today

1437
01:30:11,140 --> 01:30:14,860
we're all their kids i'll always be
there for you guys and i love you both

1438
01:30:14,860 --> 01:30:18,360
dearly we all love you guys so much
there's really nothing that i wouldn't

1439
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:24,140
for them i know

1440
01:30:24,140 --> 01:30:30,940
that no matter what You're going to

1441
01:30:30,940 --> 01:30:37,100
find ways to continue to help people
because that's the type of people you

1442
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:41,540
It's how good you are. I just hope that
Dave and Kate realize how much he loved

1443
01:30:41,540 --> 01:30:44,960
them because just in the short period of
time that I knew him, that was the one

1444
01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:46,640
truth that I knew to be absolute.

1445
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:50,900
I'm glad I wasn't a rebellious youth
because it would have been completely

1446
01:30:50,900 --> 01:30:55,360
utterly fucking wasted on David and Kate
Bagby. I mean, totally. I had my ear

1447
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:57,280
pierced for two weeks.

1448
01:30:58,660 --> 01:31:01,760
They never noticed. I'm finally sitting
at the dinner table and I was like, and

1449
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:05,380
I actually said to them, I'm like, you
know, mom, dad, it's a good thing I'm

1450
01:31:05,380 --> 01:31:07,620
looking for attention because hello.

1451
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:10,840
And they try to have a look at it.
They're like, oh, that's nice.

1452
01:31:11,440 --> 01:31:13,140
And I love you.

1453
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,020
And I know you love me.

1454
01:31:15,460 --> 01:31:16,680
And yeah,

1455
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:19,720
I kind of need to move on from that.

1456
01:31:20,020 --> 01:31:22,940
I'm a bagby male. We don't, we don't
gush very much.